List your top 5 middleweights of all-time

[crold1]

I see a lot of lists with Roy Jones in the top 5. How can you guys justify that?
He was ultra talented, yes. But what did he really accomplish and who did he beat to be rated so high?

I agree with you on this, if not Burley in the top five. For me, a top five all-time Middleweight, given the DEPTH of history in the class, is a guy whose Middleweight resume alone is HOF-worthy. I can respect talent, a big win or two, lower but Jones Middleweight resume alone isn't what made him great. It was merely a short foundation. The fact that he grew out of and struggled to make the division as soon as 1993, in the day before weigh-in era, says a lot about him not really being a Middle.

[KILLA RIGHT]

jab 5239 i see what you are saying but i put roy 5 because of his talent more then anything i guess

[CarlosG815]

Maybe in terms if title opportunities but in every other way that's an absurd comment.

Absurd? Greb had over 200 fights. How many blacks did he fight? How many Mexican's? How many guys from Puerto Rico? B Hop has fought men from all around the world.

You don't need to post a book on Greb, I'm not saying he wasn't great, I'm saying that people can't hate on another's list because THEY feel that Greb is better and deserves a spot on my list and not B Hop. How can anybody compare a guy from 1920 to a guy from the 80's to present day? There are so many unmeasurable variables that it's impossible, so who's to say? Does anybody know for a fact that out of all Greb's fights, he fought guys that Hop couldn't beat? The answer is no, that's why we can debate fantasy fights based on what we see on film, but hating on another person's subjective list is pure...

[crold1]

Absurd? Greb had over 200 fights. How many blacks did he fight? How many Mexican's? How many guys from Puerto Rico? B Hop has fought men from all around the world.

You don't need to post a book on Greb, I'm not saying he wasn't great, I'm saying that people can't hate on another's list because THEY feel that Greb is better and deserves a spot on my list and not B Hop. How can anybody compare a guy from 1920 to a guy from the 80's to present day? There are so many unmeasurable variables that it's impossible, so who's to say? Does anybody know for a fact that out of all Greb's fights, he fought guys that Hop couldn't beat? The answer is no, that's why we can debate fantasy fights based on what we see on film, but hating on another person's subjective list is pure...

I'm not 'hating' because he isn't on your list. Just noting that a) there was no scarcity of 'colored' fighters and b) Greb fought among the best of every ethnic group available. To not have the Middleweight with the best resume of wins, and arguably the best quality wins to losses ratio in Middleweight history, against a SLEW of Middleweight Hall of Famers, doesn't make sense to me. To each their own.

[StarshipTrooper]

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Marvin Hagler
04. Stanley Ketchel
05. Bernard Hopkins
06. Charley Burley
07. Harry Greb
08. Jake LaMotta
09. Carlos Monzon
10. Tony Zale
11. Panama Joe Gans
12. Marcel Cerdan
13. Les Darcy
14. Mike Gibbons
15. Holman Williams
16. Mickey Walker
17. James Toney
18. Mike McCallum
19. Tommy Burns
20. Freddie Steele
21. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
22. Nino Benvenuti

[macthechamp]

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Marvin Hagler
04. Stanley Ketchel
05. Bernard Hopkins
06. Charley Burley
07. Harry Greb
08. Jake LaMotta
09. Carlos Monzon
10. Tony Zale
11. Panama Joe Gans
12. Marcel Cerdan
13. Les Darcy
14. Mike Gibbons
15. Holman Williams
16. Mickey Walker
17. James Toney
18. Mike McCallum
19. Tommy Burns
20. Freddie Steele
21. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
22. Nino Benvenuti

What has Fitzsimmons done that rates him so highly, as a middleweight?

[StarshipTrooper]

What has Fitzsimmons done that rates him so highly as a middleweight?

Don't know much about Ruby Robert do you?

Poet

[macthechamp]

Don't know much about Ruby Robert do you?

Poet

I'm just curious as to why you rate him so highly as a middleweight. He only defeated one world champion in Nonpareil Jack Dempsey and has two other good wins over top contenders/non-champions. The rest are mostly low journeymen or exhibitions.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm just curious as to why you rate him so highly as a middleweight. He only defeated one world champion in (Nonpareil) Jack Dempsey and has two other good wins over top contenders/non-champions.

He was the most feared Middleweight in the world prior to KOing Corbett to win the Heavyweight crown. You need to take into account the era: Boxing had no manditories and title shots were hard to come by as Champions fought when they felt like it. Things weren't as organized as they would later become.

Poet

[macthechamp]

He was the most feared Middleweight in the world prior to KOing Corbett to win the Heavyweight crown. You need to take into account the era: Boxing had no manditories and title shots were hard to come by as Champions fought when they felt like it. Things weren't as organized as they would later become.

Poet

Tyson and Liston were the most feared heavyweights, as well, before their losses, but I don't think that entitles them to such a high ranking.

Plus, with all due respect, I don't think the "when he felt like fighting" excuse dismisses his lack of a great resume at middleweight.

There were champions in his era that are ranked pretty highly, by most historians, because they consistently fought great competition. James J. Jeffries is a good example.