Ali post 1971 come back fights - what if...

[Calilloyd]

Jeeez that made me laugh "Frazier not as big a hitter as Shavers & Foreman"... who did Shavers ever KO other than old Norton?
Muhammad Ali claimed Frazier hit him the hardest in his career... Larry Holmes in his book "Against the odds" claimed Frazier hit the hardest (Holmes was a sparring partner)... Jerry Quarry who fought both Shavers & Frazier said Frazier hit harder... i know it is claimed by some that Shavers was the hardest hitter ever... but who did he ever KO? his knock down of Holmes was not in the league as Renaldo Snipes knock down of Holmes or Mike Tyson knocking Holmes out.. Tex Cobb claimed Shavers hit the hardest but who else did Cobb ever fight ?

getting back to the subject, Frazier claimed in the book "Ghosts of Manilla" That he set out to damage Ali in that fight, he told Eddie Futch to NOT stop the fight days before fight-night, because he wanted to physically damage Muhammad Ali... when Ali walks into a room today that Frazier is in, Frazier always says, "see him, i done that to him" and grins

Shavers knocked out Jimmy Ellis with one punch: a right uppercut. He also knocked out Jimmy Young which was not easy to do., He also knocked Ron Lyle down twice and nearly had him out. Shavers was a devastating puncher with both hands. His problem was poor stamina. As far as what Quarry said, he really didn't get hit much my Shavers because he jumped right on Shavers. If Shavers teed off on Quarry the way Frazier did it would have been a short night. And Holmes was an old inactive fighter when he fought Tyson. That should not be used as an example.

[GJC]

Jeeez that made me laugh "Frazier not as big a hitter as Shavers & Foreman"... who did Shavers ever KO other than old Norton?

Meant Frazier doesn't have the one punch KO of Foreman or Shavers by no means calling him feather fisted lol

[StarshipTrooper]

Jeeez that made me laugh "Frazier not as big a hitter as Shavers & Foreman"... who did Shavers ever KO other than old Norton?
Muhammad Ali claimed Frazier hit him the hardest in his career... Larry Holmes in his book "Against the odds" claimed Frazier hit the hardest (Holmes was a sparring partner)... Jerry Quarry who fought both Shavers & Frazier said Frazier hit harder... i know it is claimed by some that Shavers was the hardest hitter ever... but who did he ever KO? his knock down of Holmes was not in the league as Renaldo Snipes knock down of Holmes or Mike Tyson knocking Holmes out.. Tex Cobb claimed Shavers hit the hardest but who else did Cobb ever fight ?

getting back to the subject, Frazier claimed in the book "Ghosts of Manilla" That he set out to damage Ali in that fight, he told Eddie Futch to NOT stop the fight days before fight-night, because he wanted to physically damage Muhammad Ali... when Ali walks into a room today that Frazier is in, Frazier always says, "see him, i done that to him" and grins

How are those shock treaments working out for you? Too bad they don't have any psych meds for that BCS (Bitter Crackpot Syndrome) that you suffer from! Have a nice day!

Poet

[sleazyfellow]

I seen that facing ali doc, Ali clearly wasnt the same fighter after his comeback and esp. after thrilla in manilla. Out of all his fights Joe Frazier is definetely one of the main factors of his Parkinsons syndrom.

I also find it funny that Leon Spinks talks about how Holmes beat a shell of a man......when Leon Spinks also beat that same shell AND lost a rematch.

[El_Cholo]

lets not forget the needless gym wars that Ali had that added to his condition.

[El_Cholo]

The Thrilla in Manila documentary was terribly biased and they did attempt to portray Frazier as exactly that. I'm sure he is not "proud" of causing Ali's illness, his bitterness simply gets the better of him at times. For the most part he has been nice to Ali in recent interviews, wishing him well and hoping his condition will improve. But it doesn't seem to be what people want to hear from him, especially the reporters.

I read a report in the Ring Online that stated he is not fully of remorse and only show's it when there is money to be gained. Something that was also claimed in th documentary.

[Calilloyd]

I seen that facing ali doc, Ali clearly wasnt the same fighter after his comeback and esp. after thrilla in manilla. Out of all his fights Joe Frazier is definetely one of the main factors of his Parkinsons syndrom.

I also find it funny that Leon Spinks talks about how Holmes beat a shell of a man......when Leon Spinks also beat that same shell AND lost a rematch.

The difference is that Spinks didn't claim to beat the best Ali. Holmes on the other hand, wants full credit for beating the shell of Ali without factoring in that Ali was a shot fighter.

[JAB5239]

[/U]



The difference is that Spinks didn't claim to beat the best Ali. Holmes on the other hand, wants full credit for beating the shell of Ali without factoring in that Ali was a shot fighter.

Gotta disagree Cali.

"It put me in a tricky situation. A no win situation, really. What would it prove if I beaqt a 38 year old Ali? Not much. People would do an about face on Muhhamad and say, well, that wasn't the real Ali.
And if I lost-as impossible as that seemed to me-it would be disastrous. It would negate and nullify all that I had accomplished. I told the press that if that happened I would quit the sport.
Yet what could I do?I believed Ali had no business fighting me. He was past his prime and, I sincerly believed, would be batting practice for me. I did not relish the idea of beating him up in public view."

-from Larry Holmes autobiography "Against the odds", page 153

[sonnyboyx2]

Gotta disagree Cali.

"It put me in a tricky situation. A no win situation, really. What would it prove if I beaqt a 38 year old Ali? Not much. People would do an about face on Muhhamad and say, well, that wasn't the real Ali.
And if I lost-as impossible as that seemed to me-it would be disastrous. It would negate and nullify all that I had accomplished. I told the press that if that happened I would quit the sport.
Yet what could I do?I believed Ali had no business fighting me. He was past his prime and, I sincerly believed, would be batting practice for me. I did not relish the idea of beating him up in public view."

-from Larry Holmes autobiography "Against the odds", page 153

Jab... very true what Holmes said in his autobiography, i read that book years ago when it was first published i passed it on and never got it back (like all good boxing books).. maybe you could quote the page where Holmes says what Joe Frazier would have done with Tyson & Lewis

[sonnyboyx2]

How are those shock treaments working out for you? Too bad they don't have any psych meds for that BCS (Bitter Crackpot Syndrome) that you suffer from! Have a nice day!

Poet

Once again the `Village-Idiot`has his ten-pennath on the subject and as always never nothing to do with the sport of boxing, just his typical `ridicule & name calling`like all the rest of his posts... Get a life you sad little midget and stop running up the stairs each time your daddy calls for you when he is hard.