Mike Tyson Was NOT An Inside Fighter

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Tyson was a great inside fighter when he wanted to be but I think he would rather work from mid range most of the time. Tyson allowed a lot of clinching as soon as he came to the inside I feel for a reason. Its tough throwing bombs all the time so a fighter needs to either pace him self or run out of gas early. I think thats why he allowed the clinching so he could get a little rest. Imagine if he threw big punches from mid range then threw even more big punches when he got on the inside. He'd be tired by the third round.

[tyger]

Tyson himself admitted he liked to fight on the outside. Much of the clinching on the inside was done by him because he didn't like it there. D'Amato trained fighters to fight on the outside even when they lacked height.

[GJC]

Jabbing: Tyson said it still about Timing. I think even Floyd Jr. said that at one point.

Wouldn't argue with that Jabs, but two guys with good jabs one's got a 70inch reach one's got an 80 inch reach whose your money on?

Tucker to be honest IMO opinion didn't fight a great fight against Tyson he never really tried to dominate with his jab.

Yes Tyson in that era had great head movement and speed but an old Holmes made him look ordinary for 3 rounds simply by holding his hand out throwing the odd jab and tying him up when Tyson's momentum took him inside. Now this was a Holmes moving backwards, zero lateral movement, shot reflexes who didn't get his jab working, imagine a prime Holmes holding the centre of the ring pumping that jab? OK not many have as good a jab as Holmes but if you could make Tyson "pay" on the way in and then tie him up when he gets on your chest he has to have problems.
Few rounds of that and he gets discouraged......you're in the game.
My problem was no one really did this until Douglas so we'll never know how a prime Tyson could have handled it.
Again I liked Tyson and he is a top 10 ATG but he limited himself to mid range, he didn't have the tools to fight long range against a committed bigger fighter so why didn't his team develop his inside fighting so he had a plan B?

[GJC]

Wouldn't argue with that Jabs, but two guys with good jabs one's got a 70inch reach one's got an 80 inch reach whose your money on?

Benny, my apologies, I am at the age when getting any names right is a bonus

[Benny Leonard]

Wouldn't argue with that Jabs, but two guys with good jabs one's got a 70inch reach one's got an 80 inch reach whose your money on?

Tucker to be honest IMO opinion didn't fight a great fight against Tyson he never really tried to dominate with his jab.

Yes Tyson in that era had great head movement and speed but an old Holmes made him look ordinary for 3 rounds simply by holding his hand out throwing the odd jab and tying him up when Tyson's momentum took him inside. Now this was a Holmes moving backwards, zero lateral movement, shot reflexes who didn't get his jab working, imagine a prime Holmes holding the centre of the ring pumping that jab? OK not many have as good a jab as Holmes but if you could make Tyson "pay" on the way in and then tie him up when he gets on your chest he has to have problems.
Few rounds of that and he gets discouraged......you're in the game.
My problem was no one really did this until Douglas so we'll never know how a prime Tyson could have handled it.
Again I liked Tyson and he is a top 10 ATG but he limited himself to mid range, he didn't have the tools to fight long range against a committed bigger fighter so why didn't his team develop his inside fighting so he had a plan B?

Holmes still had a flaw in his jab according to Cus...Atlas, Rooney, Tyson. A flaw that Tyson had the ability to expose.

Tyson got discouraged when you didn't supply him with the answer...that's why he relied on Cus...Rooney.

Inside fighting against a bigger fighter? How did that inside game help Frazier against Foreman?

these guys are huge and strong. Tyson ****** more to the body against guys his size or smaller...and probably for a reason...it was more effective and less taxing. If a guy can hold you off with a jab, how are you going to get inside anyway?
Timing and making him miss.

It's not like Tyson was fighting in an era of HWs...it was more Super HW.

[GJC]

Holmes still had a flaw in his jab according to Cus...Atlas, Rooney, Tyson. A flaw that Tyson had the ability to expose.

Well that Holmes was a shadow so if the plan would have worked against a prime Holmes I guess we'll never know?

Tyson got discouraged when you didn't supply him with the answer...that's why he relied on Cus...Rooney.

Exactly my point keep tagging him with the jab and see how discouraged he gets. Problem is no one was even really attempting to hold the centre of the ring and jab, wouldn't mind if they tried and Tyson got through. Most fighters he fought kind of got the rabbit in headlights looked and moved back and covered up, no one jabbed moved laterally and clinched him when he got through. Listen Tyson was quick chances are he would have tagged all but the best but there was a lot of fear and bad decision making against him.

Inside fighting against a bigger fighter? How did that inside game help Frazier against Foreman?

It didn't but that is the fate of the smaller fighter unfortunately, a good big un beats a good little un! One thing is certain it was Frazier's only hope he wasn't going to win at long to mid range.

these guys are huge and strong. Tyson ****** more to the body against guys his size or smaller...and probably for a reason...it was more effective and less taxing. If a guy can hold you off with a jab, how are you going to get inside anyway?
Timing and making him miss.

That was Tyson's problem, if the guy clinched he went passive and didn't work the body on the inside, really reduced his options in my view. Once he lost the aura of invisibility and the better fighters were using the jab and not freezing he was struggling. I know his skills had eroded a lot but I think he would have had problems anyway.

Do think that if he could fight on the inside he could have beat Holy for one.

Anyhow its only my view
[/QUOTE]

[Benny Leonard]

Well that Holmes was a shadow so if the plan would have worked against a prime Holmes I guess we'll never know?


Exactly my point keep tagging him with the jab and see how discouraged he gets. Problem is no one was even really attempting to hold the centre of the ring and jab, wouldn't mind if they tried and Tyson got through. Most fighters he fought kind of got the rabbit in headlights looked and moved back and covered up, no one jabbed moved laterally and clinched him when he got through. Listen Tyson was quick chances are he would have tagged all but the best but there was a lot of fear and bad decision making against him.

It didn't but that is the fate of the smaller fighter unfortunately, a good big un beats a good little un! One thing is certain it was Frazier's only hope he wasn't going to win at long to mid range.

That was Tyson's problem, if the guy clinched he went passive and didn't work the body on the inside, really reduced his options in my view. Once he lost the aura of invisibility and the better fighters were using the jab and not freezing he was struggling. I know his skills had eroded a lot but I think he would have had problems anyway.

Do think that if he could fight on the inside he could have beat Holy for one.

Anyhow its only my view

[/QUOTE]

A lot of fighters back off Tyson because Tyson made them miss and he would hit them...then repeat. If you are getting hit without being able to land back...you can get discouraged...especially against someone like Tyson who is fast, powerful, aggressive, can make up room quickly, and hard to hit.

Foreman vs. Frazier....why Tyson would had a better chance: Because Tyson wouldn't think body attack on Foreman....that's death. Tyson's chances is to think of it as a 3 round fight tops. Go out and as soon as the bell rings, land the biggest over-hand right you can on Foreman's chin, then unload fast powerful combos...that really might be his only chance.
Tyson, Frazier, Marciano....aren't favored over someone like Foreman but I would give Tyson the best chance out of the three (which still doesn't say much)...but there is no going the distance with Foreman...it has to be KO.

Tyson vs. Holyfield: As long as it's Tyson at his peak. Cayton was already setting up a fight with Holyfield and if Tyson had stuck around having Rooney as his trainer, I do think the body-attacks would have been back in play, just like they were in play when he fought fighters his size or smaller (when he was training with Rooney). Big guys who have more weight and can take those punches and even wrap him up...not as effective. Holyfield never had a big waist or mid-section and back then, he didn't look like he was at his peak for "lifting/growing"...but even when Tyson met him, he did hurt Holyfield to the body and bad but didn't know how to follow up. A younger Tyson would have seen that and would know how to follow up accordingly...that's training.

Tyson vs. Fergusson: Fergusson was around Holyfield's weight of 210+

[Thread Stealer]

Tyson wasn't a real skilled in-fighter like a Toney or Bowe. He was at his best at mid-range or while coming in, but he wasn't going to be a real classic in-fighter he was there. A fight like Corrales-Castillo 1 showed great in-fighting, subtle positioning, moving your body to get the right angles on the inside, terrific combinations on the inside, etc..

But at said in the video, Tyson could still do some real damage on the inside despite not being the most polished on the inside.

[Marcov]

Tysons style was effective from the outside. At least as long as he bobbed and weaved. His head movement was important to his success. Being a shorter heavyweight he would make taller fighter reach and miss and use his hand speed to land a combination(this is refuring to the Rooney era). He could have become a great infighter but he would need the head movement and bobbing/weaving to get inside(ala Joe Frazier) Later in his career the head movement was gone and he walked straight in. His power got him through many of those fights but it alone wasn't enough.

[JAB5239]

i suggest you watch Tyson vs Ruddock (2) then come back and say he could not fight inside

Nobody is saying he couldn't fight inside, only that it wasn't the most effective part of his offensive repertoire and that he isn't and should be categorized as an inside fighter. He was most effective at mid range, hence making him a mid range fighter.