Roberto Duran fights the greatest fighter he ever fought

[Obama]

Tommy Loughran lost to Primo Carnera when he was 32 doesn't mean he wasn't a great light heavy or a great fighter.
You avoided the question, as a fair minded boxing fan i'll ask you again where do you rate Duran at Lightweight?

I believe that fight is a documented fix. Not speculation, flat out confirmed.

[TheGreatA]

I believe that fight is a documented fix. Not speculation, flat out confirmed.

Carnera-Loughran was a fix? Never heard of that. Certainly doesn't seem that way on film.

[Obama]

Carnera-Loughran was a fix? Never heard of that. Certainly doesn't seem that way on film.

I'm trying to remember where I heard it from. But I'm 99% sure that's right.

And fixes aren't supposed to look like fixes. Otherwise people wouldn't get away with it.

[TheGreatA]

I'm trying to remember where I heard it from. But I'm 99% sure that's right.

And fixes aren't supposed to look like fixes. Otherwise people wouldn't get away with it.

But there's nothing odd at all about the Loughran-Carnera fight for a supposed fix, and I've never ever heard it being called a fix before until now.

Loughran got off to a quick start and stunned the heavier Carnera several times with quick punches although not actually hurting him since Loughran was a light puncher. Carnera then put on the pressure and rough-housed Loughran with his strength and size, pummeling him in the corners with Loughran attempting to brawl back, unsuccessfully.

It also didn't help Loughran that the near 100 lb bigger Carnera stepped on his foot, injuring it. Loughran relied on his footwork.

From Time Magazine:

Carnera v. Loughran

In the first round, Primo Camera lumbered out of his corner and shuffled his huge feet while Tommy Loughran dabbed his lantern jaw with a left jab. In the second and third rounds the champion tried to rush the challenger against the ropes but failed; Loughran, fast on his feet, landed one solid right hand punch. The fourth round was Loughran's, but by now Camera had learned how to crowd his opponent into the corners. In the fifth, he caught Loughran against the ropes and began to smash his face with wide clublike blows. A blonde woman near the ringside let out a piercing scream. Alarmed, Camera turned his head to see what was the matter. When he looked back, Loughran had danced out of reach.

To the crowd of 10,000, smallest in 43 years for a heavyweight championship fight, in the Miami arena last week, this was an amazing beginning. Weeks of intensive sneers in the Press had led them to believe that the bout between a 270-lb. champion from Italy and a challenger who was five years older and 86 Ib. lighter was as unfair as it sounded. Now, on a windy evening with rain pattering on rows and rows of empty $20 seats, they became aware that the spectacle under the warm cone of light at the centre of the Madison Square Garden stadium was an exciting contest between a clever, courageous boxer and a nervous, clumsy monster, embarrassed by his own size and the hostility of the crowd. When Loughran ended the fifth round with a smashing right to Camera's chin it looked for a moment as if the little man might win after all.

After the fifth round. Camera did better. Loughran's tactics of running in and clinching made it impossible to land a knockout punch but Camera wrestled away from the challenger as best he could. He rushed out of his corner in the eighth and caught Loughran against the ropes for a second. In the tenth, he made the mistake of courteously touching gloves, as if it were the last round. At the end of the 14th, Loughran was dazed enough to start for the wrong corner of the ring. During the next round, Loughran managed to cling groggily to his huge adversary until the bell ended the fight. Three judges gave Camera a unanimous decision.

To Madison Square Garden, which lost $20,000, last week's was by no means the most costly heavyweight championship fight on record. That distinction still belongs to the Tunney v. Heeney bout of 1928 on which $200,000 was dropped. Camera's failure to knock out an opponent who has only been knocked out twice in 148 fights caused most sportswriters to deride him for his victory last week. Nothing he has done since he landed in the U. S. in 1929-, an illiterate monster with a French manager, has won him any praise or popularity. After last week's bout, Challenger Loughran, lauded as the finest sportsman among U. S. prizefighters, spoke of "rabbit punches and backhand blows," complained that the champion should have been disqualified for stepping on his foot. Monster Camera was more polite: "He [Loughran] was fighting a great fight. ... I should have knocked him out but it would have been shameful to treat such a courageous opponent in such fashion. . . ."

[Obama]

It was either in a documentary or from Henry. One or the other.

[American_Ninja]

That was the word that was going around among Duran apologists you mean? Fortunately enough for us,footage exists of this fight and the Duran apologists can't change the fact that he got knocked out cold by a far greater fighter than he was.

Im not a Hearns hater, but Tommy wasn't by any means a great fighter.
Good, not great.

[JAB5239]

ya he did get clowned by kirkland,and he also got owned by a lot of others,the first leonard fight he should of lost i had leonard winning 11 rounds,those judges must of been watching another fight

We already know you won't post your imaginary top 100 list, but I like to know your criteria for judging a fight. 11 out of 15 for Leonard, are you serious?

[JAB5239]

I believe that fight is a documented fix. Not speculation, flat out confirmed.

Carnera-Loughran was a fix? Never heard of that. Certainly doesn't seem that way on film.

I'm trying to remember where I heard it from. But I'm 99% sure that's right.

And fixes aren't supposed to look like fixes. Otherwise people wouldn't get away with it.

But there's nothing odd at all about the Loughran-Carnera fight for a supposed fix, and I've never ever heard it being called a fix before until now.

Loughran got off to a quick start and stunned the heavier Carnera several times with quick punches although not actually hurting him since Loughran was a light puncher. Carnera then put on the pressure and rough-housed Loughran with his strength and size, pummeling him in the corners with Loughran attempting to brawl back, unsuccessfully.

It also didn't help Loughran that the near 100 lb bigger Carnera stepped on his foot, injuring it. Loughran relied on his footwork.

From Time Magazine:

Carnera v. Loughran

In the first round, Primo Camera lumbered out of his corner and shuffled his huge feet while Tommy Loughran dabbed his lantern jaw with a left jab. In the second and third rounds the champion tried to rush the challenger against the ropes but failed; Loughran, fast on his feet, landed one solid right hand punch. The fourth round was Loughran's, but by now Camera had learned how to crowd his opponent into the corners. In the fifth, he caught Loughran against the ropes and began to smash his face with wide clublike blows. A blonde woman near the ringside let out a piercing scream. Alarmed, Camera turned his head to see what was the matter. When he looked back, Loughran had danced out of reach.

To the crowd of 10,000, smallest in 43 years for a heavyweight championship fight, in the Miami arena last week, this was an amazing beginning. Weeks of intensive sneers in the Press had led them to believe that the bout between a 270-lb. champion from Italy and a challenger who was five years older and 86 Ib. lighter was as unfair as it sounded. Now, on a windy evening with rain pattering on rows and rows of empty $20 seats, they became aware that the spectacle under the warm cone of light at the centre of the Madison Square Garden stadium was an exciting contest between a clever, courageous boxer and a nervous, clumsy monster, embarrassed by his own size and the hostility of the crowd. When Loughran ended the fifth round with a smashing right to Camera's chin it looked for a moment as if the little man might win after all.

After the fifth round. Camera did better. Loughran's tactics of running in and clinching made it impossible to land a knockout punch but Camera wrestled away from the challenger as best he could. He rushed out of his corner in the eighth and caught Loughran against the ropes for a second. In the tenth, he made the mistake of courteously touching gloves, as if it were the last round. At the end of the 14th, Loughran was dazed enough to start for the wrong corner of the ring. During the next round, Loughran managed to cling groggily to his huge adversary until the bell ended the fight. Three judges gave Camera a unanimous decision.

To Madison Square Garden, which lost $20,000, last week's was by no means the most costly heavyweight championship fight on record. That distinction still belongs to the Tunney v. Heeney bout of 1928 on which $200,000 was dropped. Camera's failure to knock out an opponent who has only been knocked out twice in 148 fights caused most sportswriters to deride him for his victory last week. Nothing he has done since he landed in the U. S. in 1929-, an illiterate monster with a French manager, has won him any praise or popularity. After last week's bout, Challenger Loughran, lauded as the finest sportsman among U. S. prizefighters, spoke of "rabbit punches and backhand blows," complained that the champion should have been disqualified for stepping on his foot. Monster Camera was more polite: "He [Loughran] was fighting a great fight. ... I should have knocked him out but it would have been shameful to treat such a courageous opponent in such fashion. . . ."

I've just gone thru several newspaper articles from the day and nothing indicates a fix in my opinion. Carnerra's huge size advantage was frowned upon, but the fight seems to be on the up and up. Haven't seen the fight myself so its difficult to give a first hand opinion.

[Princemanspopa]

Just ignore dunce,he often makes accusations without any proof to back up his claims.His sources tend to be internet boxing historians.

Im not a Hearns hater, but Tommy wasn't by any means a great fighter.
Good, not great.

You're certainly an odd Duran apologist aren't you? How bad does that make Duran look,that he got dispatched so easily inside of two rounds by nothing more than a good fighter?

Thomas Hearns made a career out of beating good fighters,his success isn't limited to the fab four like Leonard and Hagler are,and he didn't disgrace himself during that era like Duran did either.

No fighter who was simply just "Good" could have dispatched away the likes of Duran,Cuevas,Roldan,Andries,Schuler as easily as Hearns did.No fighter who was simply just "Good" could have outboxed Wilfred Benitez and a prime Virgil Hill while Hearns at this stage was a good three to four years past his prime.

[BennyST]

ya he did get clowned by kirkland,and he also got owned by a lot of others,the first leonard fight he should of lost i had leonard winning 11 rounds,those judges must of been watching another fight

It gets more obvious every day that you do nothing more than try to get arguments started here. Does it make you feel better?