Better middleweight - Hagler or Hopkins?

[Obama]

I wouldn't say Hagler was taken to school. The only Philadelphia fighter that can truly claim a win over Hagler is Willie Monroe and he did get crushed in two rematches.

Hagler's MW record:

Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
John Mugabi (undefeated)
Alan Minter
Vito Antuofermo
Mustafa Hamsho x2
Juan Roldan
Bennie Briscoe (over the hill)
Tony Sibson
Fully Obel (undefeated) x2
Mike Colbert (undefeated)
Wilford Scypion
Eugene Hart
Sugar Ray Seales (undefeated) x2
Loucif Hamani
Willie Monroe x2
Bobby Watts
Kevin Finnegan

When you gonna learn my sarcasm?

Anyways, after a first look evaluation, Hamani, Scypion, and Colbert wouldn't meet my credibility requirements.

Also, Duran was definitely past his prime.

[TheGreatA]

When you gonna learn my sarcasm?

Anyways, after a first look evaluation, Finnegan, Hamani, Scypion, and Colbert wouldn't meet my credibility requirements.

Also, Duran was definitely past his prime.

Colbert was number 1 ranked middleweight contender, Finnegan top 5, Scypion top 3. Hamani could very well be taken out although he was number 6 ranked at the time.

Duran was past his prime for sure but not quite as badly as Brown, Briscoe or JD Jackson. He was still a champ at a lower weight.

[Obama]

Colbert was number 1 ranked middleweight contender, Finnegan top 5, Scypion top 3. Hamani could very well be taken out although he was number 6 ranked at the time.

Duran was past his prime for sure but not quite as badly as Brown, Briscoe or JD Jackson. He was still a champ at a lower weight.

I made a mistake with Finnegan, but I maintain my position on the other 3. Also, are you talking about Ring ratings at the time of the fight?

And yea, Duran wasn't over the hill yet, but unless a guy is basically prime I don't leave their name without comment.

[TheGreatA]

I made a mistake with Finnegan, but I maintain my position on the other 3. Also, are you talking about Ring ratings at the time of the fight?

And yea, Duran wasn't over the hill yet, but unless a guy is basically prime I don't leave their name without comment.

Ring ratings at the time of the fight.

I guess one could say then that Carl Daniels wasn't in his prime. DLH wasn't at his prime weight.

[Obama]

Ring ratings at the time of the fight.

I guess one could say then that Carl Daniels wasn't in his prime. DLH wasn't at his prime weight.

You got access to monthly ratings dating that far back?

Carl was on the best winning streak of his career. When he was "better" he lost... I also made no comments on prime weights. Hagler didn't fight Duran, Hearns, Mugabi, or Leonard at their best weight.

[TheGreatA]

You got access to monthly ratings dating that far back?

Carl was on the best winning streak of his career.
I made no comments on prime weights. Hagler didn't fight Duran, Hearns, Mugabi, or Leonard at their best weight.

Not monthly ratings but I can pretty much figure out their ranking with the annual ratings.

1976

Carlos Monzon, Champion

1. Mike Colbert
2. Rodrigo Valdez
3. Bennie Briscoe
4. Bobby Watts
5. David Love
6. Gratien Tonna
7. Alan Minter
8. Vito Antuofermo
9. Tony Licata
10. Leo Saenz

1979

Vito Antuofermo, Champion

1. Marvin Hagler
2. Hugo Pastor Corro
3. Alan Minter
4. Ronnie Harris
5. Curtis Parker
6. Loucif Hamani
7. Mustafa Hamsho
8. Mike Colbert
9. Kevin Finnegan
10. Tony Sibson

1981

Marvin Hagler, Champion

1. Dwight Davison
2. Mustafa Hamsho
3. Wilford Scypion
4. Frank Fletcher
5. Tony Sibson
6. Fulgencio Obelmejias
7. Curtis Parker
8. Sugar Ray Seales
9. Robbie Epps
10. Vinnie Curto

One should take into account what the opponent has accomplished at the weight. I won't criticize either Trinidad or Hearns as middleweight wins because both of them were accomplished fighters at MW. Duran too did manage to capture a title at the weight even though he was obviously not at his best.

De La Hoya on the other hand only scored a controversial SD over Sturm at 160. He is not really a credible MW win.

Daniels may have been on a winning streak but his best days were spent as a junior middleweight in the early/mid 1990's. He has only won 3 out of the 15+ fights that he has had since.

[Obama]

Not monthly ratings but I can pretty much figure out their ranking with the annual ratings.

1976

Carlos Monzon, Champion

1. Mike Colbert
2. Rodrigo Valdez
3. Bennie Briscoe
4. Bobby Watts
5. David Love
6. Gratien Tonna
7. Alan Minter
8. Vito Antuofermo
9. Tony Licata
10. Leo Saenz

1979

Vito Antuofermo, Champion

1. Marvin Hagler
2. Hugo Pastor Corro
3. Alan Minter
4. Ronnie Harris
5. Curtis Parker
6. Loucif Hamani
7. Mustafa Hamsho
8. Mike Colbert
9. Kevin Finnegan
10. Tony Sibson

1981

Marvin Hagler, Champion

1. Dwight Davison
2. Mustafa Hamsho
3. Wilford Scypion
4. Frank Fletcher
5. Tony Sibson
6. Fulgencio Obelmejias
7. Curtis Parker
8. Sugar Ray Seales
9. Robbie Epps
10. Vinnie Curto

One should take into account what the opponent has accomplished at the weight. I won't criticize either Trinidad or Hearns as middleweight wins because both of them were accomplished fighters at MW. Duran too did manage to capture a title at the weight even though he was obviously not at his best.

De La Hoya on the other hand only scored a controversial SD over Sturm at 160. He is not really a credible MW win.

Daniels may have been on a winning streak but his best days were spent as a junior middleweight in the early/mid 1990's. He has only won 3 out of the 15+ fights that he has had since.

Problem is DLH didn't fight Hopkins at 160. He fought him at 156, basically Junior Middleweight. DLH was #1 JMW before losing a dubious decision to Shane Mosley, who admitted to using EPO for the fight.

As for Daniels, fine, but he was still a B level fighter at the time Hopkins fought him.

[TheGreatA]

Problem is DLH didn't fight Hopkins at 160. He fought him at 156, basically Junior Middleweight. DLH was #1 JMW before losing a dubious decision to Shane Mosley, who admitted to using EPO for the fight.

As for Daniels, fine, but he was still a B level fighter at the time Hopkins fought him.

If he didn't fight DLH at middleweight then it shouldn't count on Hopkins's MW resume...

In all seriousness, it was a catchweight fight but for the middleweight title, and DLH was still a solid opponent for Hopkins even if a case can very well be made that he was not at his best above 154 pounds.

Daniels was a contender at MW and a former title holder so it should be included in Hopkins's record.

[Obama]

MW DLH > MW Duran. Duran was honestly nothing special at all there. The Barkley fight was a shot in the dark, and he still didn't really win it. Duran lost to Robbie Sims for christs sake.

[TheGreatA]

MW DLH > MW Duran. Duran was honestly nothing special at all there. The Barkley fight was a shot in the dark, and he still didn't really win it. Duran lost to Robbie Sims for christs sake.

I'm not sure about that. Sims wasn't that bad, not much worse than Felix Sturm atleast to whom everyone thought De La Hoya lost to.

Duran looked great against Davey Moore and fought an intelligent fight against Hagler. Barkley was a great win at that point and Juan Ferreyra was a contender at super middleweight for years.

Duran absolutely ancient at 47 years of age was good enough to go 1-1 with Jorge Castro, a then recent MW title holder.