Pick a fight we can all watch tonight.

[Dynamite Kid]

interesting scorecard in that i have it EXACTLY the same as you except i gave ray the 12th and had him 115-113 ahead

hagler threw the first 3 rounds away fighting orthodox...if he came out as usual who knows what would of happened...its 1 of those fights that sparks debate but in the midst of the debate people forget to acknowledge just how amazing SRL done to just go the distance with marvin..hagler wasnt in his prime but he was closer to his than ray was and also at his natural weight

115-113 leonard but only just

Dude as you can see from my card i tried to give Hagler the benefit of the doubt and i still cant see him doing better than draw. I have watched this fight so many times but never scored it, that said i can honestly say that everytime i have watched it i have never!! seen Hagler the winner.

Even at a draw you are leaning towards Leonard on greater ring generalship, defence, footwork, movement, combination's, clean!! punching.

I will never truly have full respect for Hagler because of the way he reacted to this loss, he acted like it was a blatant robbery, when even his most hardened fan would agree it was an extremely close fight at the very least.

Gotta say though, what heart from Leonard, tremendous heart to keep firing back when he was clearly fatigued.

[L.Ellerbe]

id also like to add it was haglers own stubborness that cost him a rematch as well

[L.Ellerbe]

Dude as you can see from my card i tried to give Hagler the benefit of the doubt and i still cant see him doing better than draw. I have watched this fight so many times but never scored it, that said i can honestly say that everytime i have watched it i have never!! seen Hagler the winner.

Even at a draw you are leaning towards Leonard on greater ring generalship, defence, footwork, movement, combination's, clean!! punching.

I will never truly have full respect for Hagler because of the way he reacted to this loss, he acted like it was a blatant robbery, when even his most hardened fan would agree it was an extremely close fight at the very least.

Gotta say though, what heart from Leonard, tremendous heart to keep firing back when he was clearly fatigued.

i mean certain rounds none of ray flurries landed either..i think it was at the end of the 7th he threw 7 or 8 dazzling shots but NONE landed an it was pissing hagler off..to be honest dude ive seen the fight 3 times now and each time ive before this ive not scored and just convinced myself ray won ..so im actually glad i have a clean conscience haha by actually thinking ray won as well..
Hagler i think was absolutely convinced he won..i watched the legendary nights after watchin the fight an larry merchant said hagler said he never put a pair of boxing gloves on after that fight he was so disgusted..,but i mean leonard reached out to him in the ring and said to him ''were still friends arent we'' and after ignoring him once ray said it again and hagler just replied ''its not fair'' an left the ring...WTF Hagler made it hard for himself by losing the first 3 rounds by fighting ******ly

no sympathy at all for him

[Dynamite Kid]

i mean certain rounds none of ray flurries landed either..i think it was at the end of the 7th he threw 7 or 8 dazzling shots but NONE landed an it was pissing hagler off..to be honest dude ive seen the fight 3 times now and each time ive before this ive not scored and just convinced myself ray won ..so im actually glad i have a clean conscience haha by actually thinking ray won as well..
Hagler i think was absolutely convinced he won..i watched the legendary nights after watchin the fight an larry merchant said hagler said he never put a pair of boxing gloves on after that fight he was so disgusted..,but i mean leonard reached out to him in the ring and said to him ''were still friends arent we'' and after ignoring him once ray said it again and hagler just replied ''its not fair'' an left the ring...WTF Hagler made it hard for himself by losing the first 3 rounds by fighting ******ly

no sympathy at all for him

Agreed

I did not score the last round for Ray because he was showboating and not getting enough done in terms of landing imo.

Its dumb to throw a blanket statement out there and try to make out that Leonard landed the flashier punches, what he actually!! did was land the clean punches, where as Hagler landed short jolting shots inside that were harder to see, Leonard also had him fighting his fight for how many rounds, he was dictating the pace of the fight early on. The biggest thing for me was how leaky Hagler's defence was, even in some of the rounds i gave him he still got nailed with clean punches.

[L.Ellerbe]

i agree on most points mate yeah...hagler for me was just overconfident and tried to act like he could beat ray on ray's terms by fghtin orthodox...when he realised he couldnt he was 3 rounds down aready


id love to score leonard - hearns II...1 day during the week again if you fancied it mate

[Dynamite Kid]

i agree on most points mate yeah...hagler for me was just overconfident and tried to act like he could beat ray on ray's terms by fghtin orthodox...when he realised he couldnt he was 3 rounds down aready


id love to score leonard - hearns II...1 day during the week again if you fancied it mate

Yeah just let me know when. I thought Ray lost that but i have never scored it so it will be interesting to see how a scorecard tally's up.


I also watched McCallum vs Toney tonight to score, BennyST wanted to get my take on why i thought Toney was lucky to get a draw, anyway here is my card. Toney winning 7 rounds to 5, its crazy how your interpretation can change when you actually score!! the fight.


1 McCallum ( very close)

Toney inactive not as active, McCallum dictated the pace and was consistent throughout, this was an
extremely close round, punch stats ...........35% of McCallums punches landed compared to 29% for James

2 Toney

Good round for Toney, he took it on the more solid punches landed, although mccallum seemed!
to be a little more active with the jabs.

3 McCallum
He controlled it with the jab, dictate the pace, he landed a sneaky right hand, he also landed a clipping left hook
after that.

4 McCallum

Toney scored the best punch of the round, howver
McCallum landed the jab consistently throughout to head and body
he also landed a number of right hands, some were countered by toney, some were not,
i could not give toney this round on one punch, he was too inactive here,
McCallum jabbed the belly and head throughout whilst also landing counter rights


5 McCallum

Toney landed the best punch of the round, a cracking right hand but i
cant score a round on 1 solid punch, not when McCallum landed his own
counter right hands and threw the jab consistenty to the body and head, not as
effectively as he did in other round, but toney virtually did nothing aside from that right
hand, in this round McCallum threw 356, landed 132, 37%, toney threw 320, landed 116, 36%

6 Toney

(Jab through 5 rounds..............McCallum landed the jab 93 times to Toney's 63 times)

Arguably Toneys best round, he landed quite a few solid shots in this
round, it was unlike round 4/5 where he landed one great punch but
got outworked, he still didnt do a lot here but he landed a number of those solid
shots as apose to one like in the previous two rounds.


7 Toney
Toney scored the more effective solid shots but mccallm closed well, still gave it to
Toney though. 40% each through 7 rounds


8 Toney

More solid punches scored by Toney in this round, although McCallum closed it up towards the end, still
a toney round though imo.

9 McCallum "Bill Miller to Toney " were losing this fight"

McCallum's best round in terms of solid punches landed on James



10 Toney

landed some solid shots here.

11 Toney

Landed the cleaner harder shots, McCallum again more active.

12 Toney

Clearest round of the fight.


Compubox

James Toney threw (823) landed (340) 41%

Mike McCallum threw (890) landed (343) 39%


Total jab

James Toney threw(373) landed(131) 35%

Mike McCallum threw 556 landed (211) 38%

[Stoppage]

I gave the first three rounds to Leonard. I don't know why Hagler was trying to fight southpaw, in the first two rounds, because it's not his natural stance. In round three, Hagler went back to southpaw and he did a lot better. I still gave the round to Leonard, though.

Round four and six to Leonard. While I felt Leonard won the first two minutes of the fifth round, Hagler came on very strong in the last minute. I decided scored it even.

Round seven, eight and nine went to Hagler. Hagler seems to be getting himself back into this fight. He's also landing the more harder shots and doing the most damage.

Round ten was very close but I scored it for Hagler. I gave Leonard the eleventh. He was boxing great and landing some nice combinations. Round twelve a great round. Leonard was dancing around and got the crowd excited. I still gave it to Hagler, though, as he landed the better shots

Final score: 115-114 Leonard

[L.Ellerbe]

good scorecard stopage.nice to see another vote for leonard LOL

i was reading a book called the four kings by george kimball...and in it michael katz was quoted saying that hagler also wanted people to know he was the best middleweight in the world fighting orthodox as well..which obviously didnt work out well


do u guys think a rematch would have been different ?

[Dynamite Kid]

I gave the first three rounds to Leonard. I don't know why Hagler was trying to fight southpaw, in the first two rounds, because it's not his natural stance. In round three, Hagler went back to southpaw and he did a lot better. I still gave the round to Leonard, though.

Round four and six to Leonard. While I felt Leonard won the first two minutes of the fifth round, Hagler came on very strong in the last minute. I decided scored it even.

Round seven, eight and nine went to Hagler. Hagler seems to be getting himself back into this fight. He's also landing the more harder shots and doing the most damage.

Round ten was very close but I scored it for Hagler. I gave Leonard the eleventh. He was boxing great and landing some nice combinations. Round twelve a great round. Leonard was dancing around and got the crowd excited. I still gave it to Hagler, though, as he landed the better shots

Final score: 115-114 Leonard

Yeah that was an accurate scorecard imo, it virtually fell in line with what i saw.

[Stoppage]

good scorecard stopage.nice to see another vote for leonard LOL

i was reading a book called the four kings by george kimball...and in it michael katz was quoted saying that hagler also wanted people to know he was the best middleweight in the world fighting orthodox as well..which obviously didnt work out well


do u guys think a rematch would have been different ?

It's hard to say. You can make the argument that Hagler would've fought a smarter fight. You could also argue that Leonard would be in better ring shape since he's already fought since the long layoff.

It's one of those rematches the fans would've always wanted but never got.