If Cus Damato Lived And Continued To Train Tyson

[mickey malone]

With only five knockouts past round five (one guy gave up and the others were TKO's) I have trouble thinking he would stop him late. None came after round seven. He was just one of those guys that didn't do well late at all, especially with his power punches.

From round five onward he more or less lost most of his speed, which killed his power and by the eighth round it was nearly nonexistent. If he did stop him I might see it happening early or around the fifth but any later....I don't know. I wouldn't think so.

What do you think?

Tyson would be in my opinion, a step up in class from say Willard, Gibbons & Tunney.. I think Dempsey would be able to fight on equal terms during the early rounds, and he'd also be tough enough to hang in there and take more shots than most of his other victims.. Late stoppage, ie 8th onwards, cuts, or taking unnecessary punishment, would be my prediction.. Tyson may have lost power through the rounds, but I'd be confident he'd still be a stronger proposition than those already mentioned..

Most people harp on about Dempsey's raw aggression and power, but he also had a granite chin.. I believe he was only ever KO'd once, in a dubious encounter with Fireman Jimmy Flynn.. Many at the time, said Dempsey had been handed a 'brown envelope' after the fight... Wouldn't surprise me!

[VibesMan]

I think Tyson's style dictated a truncated period for him to be declared as "prime" with or without Cus/Rooney.

Do I think he would have got beat with Rooney in the corner and with Cus alive. Yep and probably still by Douglas.

Tyson didn't look great in the first Bruno fight and think that was down to all the things that made him Tyson, ie, love of partying, girls and whatever else he did along with the fact he came to take his talent for granted. As he got older the less Cus/Rooney could have controlled him anyway.

As for Lewis, I'll admit it I can't stand him. Call it an irrational hatred if you will but my dislike for him as a fighter doesn't blind me to the fact he was very good indeed.

Would prime Mike have beat him? I think so but couldn't say with any great certainly.

****in hope so though!

[mickey malone]

I think Tyson's style dictated a truncated period for him to be declared as "prime" with or without Cus/Rooney.

Do I think he would have got beat with Rooney in the corner and with Cus alive. Yep and probably still by Douglas.

Tyson didn't look great in the first Bruno fight and think that was down to all the things that made him Tyson, ie, love of partying, girls and whatever else he did along with the fact he came to take his talent for granted. As he got older the less Cus/Rooney could have controlled him anyway.

As for Lewis, I'll admit it I can't stand him. Call it an irrational hatred if you will but my dislike for him as a fighter doesn't blind me to the fact he was very good indeed.

Would prime Mike have beat him? I think so but couldn't say with any great certainly.

****in hope so though!

I suppose Teddy Atlas had the right idea by holding a gun to his head!

[VibesMan]

Ha ha, and doesn't Old Teddy just love to tell that tale!

If you are to believe The Atlas, and there's no reason not to, it seems Cus was responsible for indulging some of the traits in Tyson he'd eventually become infamous for.

[sonnyboyx2]

Well, what about when Tyson was poleaxed by Douglas a decade earlier than when Lewis got him? Douglas wasn't as good as Rahman and was only about as good as McCall, the two guys that beat Lewis, but Lewis revenged those two losses brutally.

If Douglas could beat a prime Tyson with good movement and a good jab, why couldn't the much bigger, and much better Lewis?

Oh, and I noticed you said 'all would crucify him' and yet Lewis took apart Holyfield without any trouble and really didn't have an ounce of trouble with Tyson either. Yes, he was more or less shot but he was prime when he fought Douglas and got beat badly.

Obviously a newbie to the sport of Boxing... you claim here that Buster Douglas was not as good as Rahman and only about as good as McCall ..."What Rubbish" Douglas hammered McCall from pillar to Post in 1989 in his fight before he beat Tyson yet it only took McCall less than 2rds to `wipe-out`Lewis.. Hasim Rahman is by-far the worst fighter in boxing history ever to hold the heavyweight title, the only fighter he has ever beaten who was above `Class C`is Lennox Lewis, Rahman failed every other time he fought a fighter above that class, Rahman was TWICE poleaxed by Oleg Maskaev being knocked over the ropes and laying unconscious outside the ring, he was beaten by an old Holyfield, beaten and losing every round against John Ruiz, Rahman even quit against a 40yrs old James Toney...yet you claim he was better than Buster Douglas which is laughable... The Buster Douglas who beat Tyson would take-apart any version of Lennox Lewis, Rahman or McCall... Lewis avenged his defeat of McCall in a `farcical` fight with McCall only hours out of a Drug-Rehab and in no condition mentally or physically to be fighting for a world title..

Your claim that Lewis took apart Holyfield without any trouble is also not correct.. of the 45 sports writers sitting at ringside for their 2nd fight 42 had Holyfield a clear winner..

Like all Lennox Lewis `nuthuggers` you end your tirade with the line "Much BIGGER LEWIS"line, which is garbage.. Douglas was just as big as Lewis yet had vastly better speed & skills ... you base your entire Lewis theory on SIZE

[VibesMan]

Obviously a newbie to the sport of Boxing... you claim here that Buster Douglas was not as good as Rahman and only about as good as McCall ..."What Rubbish" Douglas hammered McCall from pillar to Post in 1989 in his fight before he beat Tyson yet it only took McCall less than 2rds to `wipe-out`Lewis.. Hasim Rahman is by-far the worst fighter in boxing history ever to hold the heavyweight title, the only fighter he has ever beaten who was above `Class C`is Lennox Lewis, Rahman failed every other time he fought a fighter above that class, Rahman was TWICE poleaxed by Oleg Maskaev being knocked over the ropes and laying unconscious outside the ring, he was beaten by an old Holyfield, beaten and losing every round against John Ruiz, Rahman even quit against a 40yrs old James Toney...yet you claim he was better than Buster Douglas which is laughable... The Buster Douglas who beat Tyson would take-apart any version of Lennox Lewis, Rahman or McCall... Lewis avenged his defeat of McCall in a `farcical` fight with McCall only hours out of a Drug-Rehab and in no condition mentally or physically to be fighting for a world title..

Your claim that Lewis took apart Holyfield without any trouble is also not correct.. of the 45 sports writers sitting at ringside for their 2nd fight 42 had Holyfield a clear winner..

Like all Lennox Lewis `nuthuggers` you end your tirade with the line "Much BIGGER LEWIS"line, which is garbage.. Douglas was just as big as Lewis yet had vastly better speed & skills ... you base your entire Lewis theory on SIZE

Man, where to start.

I'm a huge Tyson fan but your post is filled with points that are dubious at best.

Rahman the worst title holder?? - Michael Bent? Bruno? Franceso Damiani? I could go on....

Douglas beats Lewis?? - C'mon. Rahman he probably beats on his best night but no version of Buster beats Lewis.

[Silencers]

I think Tyson would've still fallen apart eventually, maybe not against Buster Douglas but I think it was just a matter of time.

[GJC]

Some good posts on this. I think Douglas would have given any HW in history problems that night to be honest. Also Tyson was there to be taken in the 1st Bruno fight onwards IMO. Good point that Jacobs death is overlooked in Tyson's decline.
To steal from and paraphrase Poet short reached pressure fighters don't usually have a long shelf life.
Tyson is a top 10 ATG in my view where you put him is a matter of opinion/taste so not too shabby a career. Might go up a couple of places had he stayed focussed but he was never going to overtake Ali as number one.

[StarshipTrooper]

Obviously a newbie to the sport of Boxing...

BennyST is FAR from being a newbie. In fact he's one of our best posters in the Boxing History section.

Poet

[mickey malone]

Some good posts on this. I think Douglas would have given any HW in history problems that night to be honest. Also Tyson was there to be taken in the 1st Bruno fight onwards IMO. Good point that Jacobs death is overlooked in Tyson's decline.
To steal from and paraphrase Poet short reached pressure fighters don't usually have a long shelf life.
Tyson is a top 10 ATG in my view where you put him is a matter of opinion/taste so not too shabby a career. Might go up a couple of places had he stayed focussed but he was never going to overtake Ali as number one.

Short armed pressure fighters! lol