Joe Frazier didn't sell?

[Willie Pep 229]

- - When Frazier fought George, it was in Jamaica because the US economy nosedived after withdrawing from Vietnam.

George never defended his titles in the US for just that reason...simples for simple peeple...

Our economy didn't nose dive. It went into stagflation, not a recession.There was lots of money floating around but everything cost too much. That never stopped a prize fight before.

I think the fights ending up in Jamaica and then in '74, in Zaire, was a black thing. A political/social expression of African culture and black empowerment. A return to their 'roots.'

P.S. There is a wonderful story about Foreman and Don King and crew showing up in Zaire wearing classical African attire.

Problem was, the locals wore t-shirts and jeans and the King and his advisors wore Wall Street power suits.They were laughing their azz off at the silly looking Americans.

The Africans do indeed wear these traditional clothes, but only on holidays and for parades.

Imagine getting onto a NY subway and seeing a guy dressed like a Revolutionary soldier with a tricorner hat and uniform?

If it was July 4th, you would say cool outfit dude.

If it was late February, you would move your seat.

The Americans couldn't figure out that they were being laughed at, and any attempt to tell them got you called racist.

Ali, didn't show up dressed like that. He actually was sensitive to (or aware) of the actual African culture. He dressed like an American and they respected that.

[QueensburyRules]

Our economy didn't nose dive. It went into stagflation, not a recession.There was lots of money floating around but everything cost too much. That never stopped a prize fight before.

I think the fights ending up in Jamaica and then in '74, in Zaire, was a black thing. A political/social expression of African culture and black empowerment. A return to their 'roots.'

P.S. There is a wonderful story about Foreman and Don King and crew showing up in Zaire wearing classical African attire.

Problem was, the locals wore t-shirts and jeans and the King and his advisors wore Wall Street power suits.They were laughing their azz off at the silly looking Americans.

The Africans do indeed wear these traditional clothes, but only on holidays and for parades.

Imagine getting onto a NY subway and seeing a guy dressed like a Revolutionary soldier with a tricorner hat and uniform?

If it was July 4th, you would say cool outfit dude.

If it was late February, you would move your seat.

The Americans couldn't figure out that they were being laughed at, and any attempt to tell them got you called racist.

Ali, didn't show up dressed like that. He actually was sensitive to (or aware) of the actual African culture. He dressed like an American and they respected that.

- - Vegas was a backwater then, and MSG in major decline, hence the Jamaican govt promised a considerably bigger purse. Same deal with Japan and Venezuela.

Same deal with Africa. Everyone laughs at silly Americans in between fleecing them.

[Bronson66]

Our economy didn't nose dive. It went into stagflation, not a recession.There was lots of money floating around but everything cost too much. That never stopped a prize fight before.

I think the fights ending up in Jamaica and then in '74, in Zaire, was a black thing. A political/social expression of African culture and black empowerment. A return to their 'roots.'

P.S. There is a wonderful story about Foreman and Don King and crew showing up in Zaire wearing classical African attire.

Problem was, the locals wore t-shirts and jeans and the King and his advisors wore Wall Street power suits.They were laughing their azz off at the silly looking Americans.

The Africans do indeed wear these traditional clothes, but only on holidays and for parades.

Imagine getting onto a NY subway and seeing a guy dressed like a Revolutionary soldier with a tricorner hat and uniform?

If it was July 4th, you would say cool outfit dude.

If it was late February, you would move your seat.

The Americans couldn't figure out that they were being laughed at, and any attempt to tell them got you called racist.

Ali, didn't show up dressed like that. He actually was sensitive to (or aware) of the actual African culture. He dressed like an American and they respected that.

.There are photos of both Ali and King wearing the traditional Dashiki on Getty Images. Ali made a comment about his,"African brothers putting Foreman in a pot and cooking him," so I don't think he was that aware of the local culture. Even the title for the fight,"The Rumble In the Jungle,"though catchy was markedly insensitive
The " Rumble" ended up in Africa because Mobuto , the bloodstained dictator who ran the country , underwrote the cost of it.You know all this. I don't know the back ground to the Kingston fight.

[max baer]

- - Vegas was a backwater then, and MSG in major decline, hence the Jamaican govt promised a considerably bigger purse. Same deal with Japan and Venezuela.

Same deal with Africa. Everyone laughs at silly Americans in between fleecing them.

It wasn't a colour that put this *rumble in the jungle* together, don king put it together. I'd like to call him the messiah!
yeah the brother said something there, the brother said something there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svhnasgxpqs 40.10
so if someone is bothering queeny someone will say "whose bothering my brother queeny! cause he have some soldiers.

[The Big Dunce]

Some fighters need a rival to keep them relevant and selling tickets. Part of the reason sunken chest Holmes was never popular, he moved like a sloth and didn’t have an established rival to lean his legacy on.

[SouthpawRight]

I had suggested to a different poster that there is a difference between a celebrity and a star.

When half the people love you, you're a celebrity. When half the people love you, and half the people hate you, you're a star.

Celebrities always fade like fads do; stars echo for decades.

a true star left, a celeb right

Floyd remains a polarizing figure TILL THIS DAY even a decade into retirement while few hate manny

Ali was a hate or love figure who everyone softened up on over time. I think because people realized Ali was right about the Vietnam War being wrong
image.jpg

[Bennyleonard99]

Some fighters need a rival to keep them relevant and selling tickets. Part of the reason sunken chest Holmes was never popular, he moved like a sloth and didn’t have an established rival to lean his legacy on.

No. Ali was an impossible act to follow. Holmes never had a chance to charm the public like Ali did. But Holmes was actually a little better than Ali. Holmes learned from Ali the master and was too good for his era. He dominated his era like Joe Louis for decades earlier.

[The Big Dunce]

No. Ali was an impossible act to follow. Holmes never had a chance to charm the public like Ali did. But Holmes was actually a little better than Ali. Holmes learned from Ali the master and was too good for his era. He dominated his era like Joe Louis for decades earlier.

Holmes dominated in a weak decade of heavies. Clay had plenty of rivals to build his name and make him the boogeyman of the division.

[Bennyleonard99]

Holmes dominated in a weak decade of heavies. Clay had plenty of rivals to build his name and make him the boogeyman of the division.

No era is weak, every era is strong, hungry and dangerous. But perceptions of eras vary due to popularity and personalities which affect media coverage. Holmes dominated his tough era and was so good he made his era appear weak. That's what all the greats do. You should know that by now.

[The Big Dunce]

No era is weak, every era is strong, hungry and dangerous. But perceptions of eras vary due to popularity and personalities which affect media coverage. Holmes dominated his tough era and was so good he made his era appear weak. That's what all the greats do. You should know that by now.

Of course eras are weak. You cannot compare the level of competition from the 70s or 90s HW scene to that of today or even a decade ago. Try comparing the welters of the Leonard era, or even a decade ago to today. The level of talent and competition is not close. Unless you consider Rolly, Barrios and Norman on the same level as Leonard, Hearns and Duran. Is this what you're telling me?