Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is this True?: Dempsey vs. Greb Sparring

Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is this True?: Dempsey vs. Greb Sparring

    Jack Cavanaugh, Tunney: Boxing’s Brainiest Champ and His Upset of the Great Jack Dempsey, Chapter 8​

    Sparring is flat-out dangerous, as demonstrated by some famous rounds that may never have occurred if it weren’t for St. Paul’s Billy Miske. In September 1920 Jack Dempsey, known as the Manassa Mauler, was training to defend the heavyweight title against Miske when Dempsey’s manager invited middleweight Harry Greb, known as the Pittsburgh Windmill, to spar with the champ. As the story goes:

    The Pittsburgh Windmill was in Benton Harbor, Michigan, for a fight with a fairly good light‑heavyweight named Chuck Wiggins…. The bout was to be on the undercard of Jack Dempsey’s first title defense, against Billy Miske, on Labor Day.

    Dempsey was already in training in Benton Harbor, and his manager, Jack Kearns, got the idea of asking Greb to spar with Dempsey. Kearns’s reasoning was that Greb – like Miske more of a boxer than a puncher – would provide the Manassa Mauler with a good workout. With scores of sportswriters among the spectators looking on, Greb gave Dempsey more than a good workout. For three rounds, Greb darted in and out, peppering Dempsey with punches and eluding whatever blows Dempsey threw at him. If anyone had kept score, Greb would have won all three rounds handily. When it was over, Dempsey was left embarrassed and also angry at Kearns for inviting Greb to spar with him. As for the sportswriters who witnessed the session, they had a field day reporting how Greb – five inches shorter and thirty-five pounds lighter – had boxed the ears off the great Dempsey.

    Upset over the newspaper accounts of the sparring session, Dempsey asked Kearns to try to get Greb back in the ring with him…. Kearns did not think much of the idea, fearing that Greb would embarrass Dempsey again. But Dempsey insisted and Kearns … found Greb eager to box with Dempsey again the next afternoon. Kearns was right; it was a mistake. Dempsey, trying desperately for a knockout, found nothing but air with most of his punches. Meanwhile, Greb … peppered the champion at one juncture with about fifteen unanswered punches. Kearns … let the round go for almost five minutes, feeling that the Manassa Mauler inevitably would land a haymaker that would knock out Greb. Dempsey never even came close….

    Dempsey’s embarrassment was palpable as he left the ring. And when Greb sought a fight with Dempsey several years later, Kearns said, “The hell with that seven-year itch. We don’t want any part of him.”




    I'm pretty sure I remember reading about their sparring sessions but I didn't know it was this personal, intense, and one-sided. Is this pretty much accurately how it went down?​
    Mr Mitts Mr Mitts likes this.

  • #2
    - - Kearns was something of a sociopath.

    Dempsey was 14 months inactive after Willard whereas Miske had been quite active. Miske was a solid puncher with 75% KOs.

    Kearns was in perpetual conflict with Jack over taking more than his fair share of the purse that left him in perpetual debt to Dempsey, ie something like $200,000+ that Kearns never paid back.

    Greb is actually the perfect spar to reveal those rusty boxing instincts to be sharpened, but not in Public. Kearns was already trying to knock Jack down a few pegs for better exploitation.

    There ain't a legendary boxer alive who didn't suffer a bad sparring session...yeah!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
      - - Kearns was something of a sociopath.

      Dempsey was 14 months inactive after Willard whereas Miske had been quite active. Miske was a solid puncher with 75% KOs.

      Kearns was in perpetual conflict with Jack over taking more than his fair share of the purse that left him in perpetual debt to Dempsey, ie something like $200,000+ that Kearns never paid back.

      Greb is actually the perfect spar to reveal those rusty boxing instincts to be sharpened, but not in Public. Kearns was already trying to knock Jack down a few pegs for better exploitation.

      There ain't a legendary boxer alive who didn't suffer a bad sparring session...yeah!!!
      It wasn't Kearns.

      Greb had just signed with Fitzsimmons. Fitz used Greb on the undercard for the Dempsey-Miske fight.

      Whatever happened that day in sparring, don't rule out the possibility that they were making Harry look good for the reporters.

      It was 1920 two years before Greb would become the sensation that beat Tunney in 1922.

      It was a three fight card.

      Dempsey-Miske
      Greb-Wiggins
      ​Langford-Tate

      Dempsey and Fitzsimmons were friends. After the fight he bought Fitz's wife a 14K car.

      I often wonder if it was some kind of a tax dodge.

      There is a 1924 New Year's Eve party photo of the Dempseys (Estelle) and the Fitzsimmons.

      In 1925 it was Fitzsimmons whom Dempsey first turn to after dumping Kearns. But Fitzsimmons couldn't bring home the Wills fight in Chicago for 1926, so he ended up in Dempsey's camp as spokesperson (to replace Kearns) for the Tunney fight.

      Dempsey took care of his friends, Miske and Fitzsimmons.

      P.S. I have not yet been able to confirm a Dempsey-Mehan relationship, but I expect to one day run across conformation that Willie was a Dempsey friend as well.

      Those Mehan fights are su****ious.

      Last edited by Willie Pep 229; 07-17-2025, 10:15 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
        Kearns was already trying to knock Jack down a few pegs for better exploitation.
        What makes you say this? We know we can't just take your word for it because to be honest your word doesn't amount to much around here.
        I wonder if the reporters returned the 2nd day.

        Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
        -
        There ain't a legendary boxer alive who didn't suffer a bad sparring session...yeah!!!
        That's the lesson we were trying to teach your clown friends in the Johnson thread. Make sure you let them know that!

        Bronson66 Bronson66 likes this.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by travestyny View Post

          What makes you say this? We know we can't just take your word for it because to be honest your word doesn't amount to much around here.
          I wonder if the reporters returned the 2nd day.



          That's the lesson we were trying to teach your clown friends in the Johnson thread. Make sure you let them know that!
          - - Kearns was a vicious controlling sociopath in a vicious era of world history.

          Keep up the good work in mangling Wills.

          Did you know Wills was a Vegetarian?

          Yup, that may explain a lot...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

            - - Kearns was a vicious controlling sociopath in a vicious era of world history.

            Keep up the good work in mangling Wills.

            Did you know Wills was a Vegetarian?

            Yup, that may explain a lot...
            Eder Jofre was ,what was your point?

            Wills wasnt a veggie,here is a direct quote from him referring to his annual February fast.

            "It was bad enough to go 31 days without pork chops," the 51-year-old ex-fighter sighed at the end of his thirty-second annual fast in 1943. "Without havin' people talkin' forever about where they're going to get pork chops."

            Last edited by Bronson66; 07-18-2025, 12:33 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
              - - Kearns was something of a sociopath.

              Dempsey was 14 months inactive after Willard whereas Miske had been quite active. Miske was a solid puncher with 75% KOs.

              Kearns was in perpetual conflict with Jack over taking more than his fair share of the purse that left him in perpetual debt to Dempsey, ie something like $200,000+ that Kearns never paid back.

              Greb is actually the perfect spar to reveal those rusty boxing instincts to be sharpened, but not in Public. Kearns was already trying to knock Jack down a few pegs for better exploitation.

              There ain't a legendary boxer alive who didn't suffer a bad sparring session...yeah!!!
              Why do fans of boxers feel so threatened by sparring stories?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post

                It wasn't Kearns.

                Greb had just signed with Fitzsimmons. Fitz used Greb on the undercard for the Dempsey-Miske fight.

                Whatever happened that day in sparring, don't rule out the possibility that they were making Harry look good for the reporters.

                It was 1920 two years before Greb would become the sensation that beat Tunney in 1922.

                It was a three fight card.

                Dempsey-Miske
                Greb-Wiggins
                ​Langford-Tate

                Dempsey and Fitzsimmons were friends. After the fight he bought Fitz's wife a 14K car.

                I often wonder if it was some kind of a tax dodge.

                There is a 1924 New Year's Eve party photo of the Dempseys (Estelle) and the Fitzsimmons.

                In 1925 it was Fitzsimmons whom Dempsey first turn to after dumping Kearns. But Fitzsimmons couldn't bring home the Wills fight in Chicago for 1926, so he ended up in Dempsey's camp as spokesperson (to replace Kearns) for the Tunney fight.

                Dempsey took care of his friends, Miske and Fitzsimmons.

                P.S. I have not yet been able to confirm a Dempsey-Mehan relationship, but I expect to one day run across conformation that Willie was a Dempsey friend as well.

                Those Mehan fights are su****ious.
                - - Well, Meehan was the "House Fighter" at the San Francisco Shipyards with a Sam Langford scalp as well.

                Just before he died in 1963, Kearns stopped by Dempsey's Restaurant where Dempsey was famous for serving down and out pugs a steak dinner gratis with a few bucks in their pockets. Kearns was down and out destitute, or so he said and hit up Dempsey for $500 so he could set up in Floriduh. Dempsey's reward was a later Sports Illustrated article by a Kearns associate claiming Jack wore loaded gloves vs Willard such that Dempsey had to sue before a $umptous out of court settlement.

                Not to mention: According to the March 16, 1934, Wenatchee Daily World, p. 17, Kearns was being sued for paternity and child support by Miss Elizabeth Williams. (Mary Helen McKernan may have been the child's name.)

                Per newspaper wire reports, such as that found in the Tacoma News-Tribune, on March 23, 1945, Kearns was indicted in New York City for 26 counts of mail fraud. Bail was set at $3,500. His co-defendants were Harry (Packy) Lennon and Gloria Carruthers (also known as Princess Zulieka, an astrologist).

                Jack "Doc" Kearns died July 17, 1963.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Seems to me that these sparring sessions happened on September 1st and September 2nd, 1920.

                  On Aug. 31st, Greb joined Dempsey's camp but Dempsey declined to spar with him because he had already sparred and apparently knew from previous sparring with Greb in New York that he would be too tough to take on after already having sparred. He said he would spar Greb the next day, and chose him first to spar then.

                  That's apparently when Greb really embarrassed him. Making Dempsey miss and pay over 3 rounds. On the next day, Greb did well again, but there are reports that in the third round Dempsey hit him with some good body shots that 'lifted him off the canvas." He also butted Dempsey either in the 2nd or 3rd round causing a cut to his mouth.

                  There are some reports that there was some sparring on a third day, but it was extremely light since Dempsey was cut the day before.

                  And what a treat for the fans when the fights rolled around. Dempsey, Greb, and Langford all on the same card.
                  Last edited by travestyny; 07-20-2025, 11:43 AM.
                  Mr Mitts Mr Mitts likes this.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by travestyny View Post
                    Seems to me that these sparring sessions happened on September 1st and September 2nd, 1920.

                    On Aug. 31st, Greb joined Dempsey's camp but Dempsey declined to spar with him because he had already sparred and apparently knew from previous sparring with Greb in New York that he would be too tough to take on after already having sparred. He said he would spar Greb the next day, and chose him first to spar then.

                    That's apparently when Greb really embarrassed him. Making Dempsey miss and pay over 3 rounds. On the next day, Greb did well again, but there are reports that in the third round Dempsey hit him with some good body shots that 'lifted him off the campus." He also butted Dempsey either in the 2nd or 3rd round causing a cut to his mouth.

                    There are some reports that there was some sparring on a third day, but it was extremely light since Dempsey was cut the day before.

                    And what a treat for the fans when the fights rolled around. Dempsey, Greb, and Langford all on the same card.
                    I'm quite prepared to believe Greb made Jack look slow and clumsy ,he did that to lots of guys.Over 15 rds I think Jack rips his belly out.
                    travestyny travestyny likes this.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X
                    TOP