Jack johnson - How good was his chin?

[GhostofDempsey]

I provided the purses ,the training expenses ,and the public statements all concerned parties made to the press.
They were all taken from Pollacks biographies of Johnson along with the newspapers names and the dates.
You know I posted them,and you know the sources they came from.

There is nothing more to be said on that front.

Johnson many,many times stated he would fight anyone if his $30,000 purse was met, when the McMahon Bros on Jeannette's behalf ,and McIntosh on McVey's and Langford's behalf, met Johnsons price he signed the contracts and posted his cash bond.
This is all a matter of public record and all the wriggling and postulating on your behalf will not alter that fact.

Nor will it erase their statements to the public explaining why they were forced to abandon their promotion of those fights,nor erase Jeannette's statement that Johnson was not to blame for their title fight being cancelled twice.

I never mentioned those three in that context .I named them as 170 pounders that could knock down heavyweights. Langford did not weigh in for his fight with Johnson,you are quoting a "guestimate".

Yet Johnson turned down $20k to fight Jeannette so he could earn $1,000 to fight Battling Jim. He turned down many other similar offers. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck. You can type until your fingertips blleed but Johnson drew the color line as champ and cherry picked his way through his reign as champion.

[travestyny]

You can type until your fingertips blleed but Johnson drew the color line as champ and cherry picked his way through his reign as champion.

What's very interesting is that if anyone says this about Jack Dempsey, who has vastly more solid evidence of behaving this way, you claim it's all wrong.

Johnson signed to fight all of the boxers you mentioned and had the fights canceled by promoters and commissions.

Dempsey is on record actually drawing the color-line.
He dodged a Montreal fight with Wills because he claimed he couldn't get in shape in time.
He broke a legally binding contract to avoid fighting Wills in Chicago, forcing a court to slap him with an injunction preventing him from fighting anyone but Wills in Chicago (which is why the Tunney fight was moved to Philly).
He had the New York Commission threatening to suspend him if he won't fight Wills....



but nah, Dempsey didn't duck Wills. He did all he could to make that fight. It was Johnson who signed and said let's roll that was the ducker.

You guys have no shame. Truly pathetic.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yet Johnson turned down $20k to fight Jeannette so he could earn $1,000 to fight Battling Jim. He turned down many other similar offers. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck. You can type until your fingertips blleed but Johnson drew the color line as champ and cherry picked his way through his reign as champion.

According to a New York Times article dated January 23rd 1913, Mcketrick claimed he had a 30K guarantee from a French sporting club. For a fight that June.

The article also claims Johnson accepted the deal (by written letter to McKetrick) and claimed he would finish closing the deal when he arrived in Paris.

NYT 23-01-13

So come October 29th 1913 the French Federation of Boxing strips Johnson of their title and calls for a Jeannette-Langford elimination bout.

NYT 29-10-13

So what happened in between Januray and October?

[travestyny]

According to a New York Times article dated January 23rd 1913, Mcketrick claimed he had a 30K guarantee from a French sporting club. For a fight that June.

The article also claims Johnson accepted the deal (by written letter to McKetrick) and claimed he would finish closing the deal when he arrived in Paris.

NYT 23-01-13

So come October 29th 1913 the French Federation of Boxing strips Johnson of their title and calls for a Jeannette-Langford elimination bout.

NYT 29-10-13

So what happened in between Januray and October?

I might be able to answer that. Between January and October, the purse shrunk.

In January, it was $50,000 for Johnson - win, lose, or draw.
Jan. 23, 1913 Bridgeport Evening Farmer



In February, it was now suddenly $23,000 (we already know Johnson's number was $30,000)
Feb. 27, 1913 The New Haven Union



The final outcome was Frank Moran for what was [to be] $35,000.

[GhostofDempsey]

According to a New York Times article dated January 23rd 1913, Mcketrick claimed he had a 30K guarantee from a French sporting club. For a fight that June.

The article also claims Johnson accepted the deal (by written letter to McKetrick) and claimed he would finish closing the deal when he arrived in Paris.

NYT 23-01-13

So come October 29th 1913 the French Federation of Boxing strips Johnson of their title and calls for a Jeannette-Langford elimination bout.

NYT 29-10-13

So what happened in between Januray and October?

Thank you for posting some legit sources rather than the anonymous or obscure ones that are typically posted on here by you know who.

[travestyny]

Oh, I get it. It's legit if we just do this:

The Lake County Times 24/01/1913


Glad we got that settled

[GhostofDempsey]

A quote from Jeannette himself, ouch!

IMG_1605.jpg

[travestyny]

"I have whipped him decisively several times in Philadelphia..."


I'm confused. Didn't Johnson beat Jeannette 6 out of 7 times, the only loss being a DQ in the 2nd round? And I certainly think Johnson could have done better than $10,000.

Such vitriol. I wonder what Jeannette had to say about Dempsey refusing to fight even the past prime version of himself for a war charity

[Bronson66]

A quote from Jeannette himself, ouch!

IMG_1605.jpg

Predictably you've turned another Johnson thread into a," lets hate onJohnson ,"one.

We have a trio of you doing this ,ignoring verified facts and posted primary sources,all motivated by hate.
I'll get back to you on this today but you will just ignore the facts as you always have.
You know what you posted is a publicity blurb full of lies, but still you posted it , desperate to dump on Johnson who died before even I was born.WTF is wrong with you?

[Bronson66]

Predictably you've turned another Johnson thread into a," lets hate onJohnson ,"one.

We have a trio of you doing this ,ignoring verified facts and posted primary sources,all motivated by hate.
I'll get back to you on this today but you will just ignore the facts as you always have.
You know what you posted is a publicity blurb full of lies, but still you posted it , desperate to dump on Johnson who died before even I was born.WTF is wrong with you?

This was posted in1912.
In that year Jeannette was a busy little boy 22 fights,all but 2 over nobodies, the best he faced were 163lbs Jeff Clark who drew with him and Battling Jim Johnson who took a decision off him.
Jeannette was fighting for chump change,he needed Johnson like flowers need rain.
Jeannette's manager did indeed challenge Johnson several times on Joe's behalf,unfortunately the best offer he could come up with was $10,000 for Johnson,$20,000 short of Johnson's asking price for a title defence.
Johnson fought once in1912 an easy defence against Jim Flynn for which Johnson was guaranteed $30,000,plus $1,100 training expenses plus one third of the movie rights.
Now,which fight would you take? A $10,000 offer to defend against Jeannette, or a guaranteed $30,000 plus$1.100 exes plus a third of the movie rights? Tough decision right?

Now, lets look at Jeannette's claims.
1."Ive whipped him decisively several times". Here is the real record :
Fight no1 1905 May Johnson won floored Jeannette 3 times in a 3 round fight

Johnson - who attempted to knock out the first of two men on this card - dropped Jeannette three times in round 1, but after that his opponent stuck it out and gave as much as he took. In the end both the New York Evening World and the Washington Times declared it a very even fight. UPDATE: According to a consensus of the Philadelphia newspapers, Johnson won the bout. The Philadelphia Record and Philadelphia Evening Bulletin both awarded the bout to Johnson and the Philadelphia Inquirer account stated that "Johnson seemed unable to get to Jeannette with any of his blows effectively, although the New Yorker took the count more than once to gather his wits about him when the milling got a bit warm."


Fight no21905 Nov.Jeannette won by dsq 2nd rd

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious left hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor, writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promptly disqualified. Jeanette professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club official under surveillance.
Philadelphia Public Ledger

This is a bit different to Jeannette's " version".
"he deliberately and maliciously fouled me,to save himself from defeat".
Johnson was never DSQ'd again in76 fights it was the 2rd round of a fight he was winning handily,so what would be the motive for him to foul Jeannette ? Which version of this fight do you honestly believe?

Fight no3 1905 Dec Johnson wins 6rds.This was the day after Johnson had beaten
Young PeterJackson over 12 rds! Johnson dropped Jeannette once in the 5th round and 3 times in the 6th and last round.Philadelphia Public Ledger dec3rd 1905

Fight no4Jan 1906Johnson wins over 3 rds.
"Johnson won decisively per Binghamton NY Press"
Fight no 5 March1906.
Johnson wins the decision 15rds. The local Baltimore Sun felt Johnson carried Jeannette. Baltimore Sun March 15th 1906.
The Police Gazette felt it was doubtful Jeannette could have lasted another round.Police Gazette 1906. March31st
Fight no 6.Sep1906Johnson wins a NWS decision over 6rds.
The Police Gazette Oct 6th 1906.Said Johnson was not trying too hard to win by a wide margin and delayed forcing matters,He was looking for an easy ride.Johnson however earned the decision without displaying too much of his real fighting ability.
The Freeman said.It was a very tame affair.Johnson was a great deal too much for Jeannette.Inthe second round Jeannette drew blood from Johnson's eye ,but after thatJohnson knocked him at will.

The Freeman went on to say.
Johnson is the only man who has a chance to defeat Jeffries,should Jeffries be induced to comeback by the ever increasing large purses.
It is evidently a fact that Jack Johnson is more of an equal of Jim Jeffries today than any other man in the business today.He long ago demonstrated that fact.
He has terrific power in both arms,and can deliver a very stiff punch.There is no doubt he will certainly have a good time outdoing.
Twelve days after Johnson beat JimJeffords
Fight 7Nov1906
Johnson and Jeannette drew over 10rds Pollack includes around by round report of this fight in his 1st Johnson biography.Johnson left hooked Jeannette to the canvas in the last round ,and the count reached 5 before the final bell was rung.

"The local paper called it a draw, though it also said Johnson was the cleverer boxer and ring general and slightly outclassed Jeannette. Research done by Adam Pollack."

Now explain to me how Jeannette got the better of Johnson in their 7 fight series?

In1912 Jeannette was fighting for peanuts and made up a lot of BS to try and hype a title shot between himself and Champion Jack.
Just Langford did when he said he had floored Johnson in their fight,we know he didn't ,and we know Johnson floored him 3 times for long 9 counts.

It's called promoting!
If the best you can come up with is Jeannette's own account of his series with Johnson[hardly an un biased source!,]I think we are correct in assuming you aren't interested in the truth but just in propagating just a lot of anti Johnson propaganda.
Now Ive spent too much time on this, especially as you will disregard it outright,but at least when you do, other posters will be able to read it and make their own mind up about who is objective and posting primary sources,and who is just intent on talking BS to support his anti Johnson agenda.