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Why the Mayweather-Pacquiao conflict can’t be resolved

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  • Why the Mayweather-Pacquiao conflict can’t be resolved

    The contract negotiations are irrelevant to what follows.

    Almost a decade on from their delayed fight, arguments between the two factions of fans rage on with considerable ferocity. The reason for this is ideological at root. Although Mayweather plays it down now, he very obviously had a personal problem with Pacquiao, especially around 2009/2010. Pacquiao’s fans had a problem with Mayweather, but not Pacquiao himself. This is a critical distinction.

    Mayweather was respected but not loved. Pacquiao was loved. This is another critical distinction. The reasons for this are twofold: Pacquiao was a more relatable/likeable person to most people; and he had a more fan-friendly fighting style. Mayweather’s fans insist that he is the superior technician which is probably correct, but the obvious problem with this is that if every boxer approximated Mayweather’s style the sport would be largely devoid of excitement.

    Mayweather’s fans became very invested in the doping narrative which emerged in the wake of Pacquiao’s defeat of Miguel Cotto. Mayweather’s father’s thoughts on the subject seem to have influenced Floyd towards the “Olympic style drug testing” he insisted on. The perception since, from Mayweather’s fans’ point of view, has been that Pacquiao is fraudulent on some level. Positions hardened over the five years it took for them to eventually share a ring.

    Their 2015 fight was generally viewed as disappointing, compounded by the speculation that it may have been better in 2010. We’ll never know if that would have been the case, but given the buildup combined with the number of casual fans who watched it then this perception was almost inevitable. Mayweather won but it wasn’t emphatic, which was in keeping with his style of victory post-2007. The most obviously hurtful punch landed in the fight was thrown by Pacquiao.

    In the end, if one believes Mayweather was the “master boxer” of his era this is irreconcilable with the view of Pacquiao as a risk-taking entertainer. Neither position is necessarily incorrect.

  • #2
    Here is my take: In boxing fights become truth machines... P o r n stars often speak of learning how to "perform" in front of an audience, but a fight is no mere performance, no mere mechanical act... Fights tell us about the fighters and that which esteems a great champion can just as quickly diminish him. Just ask Roberto Duran when he fought Leonard.

    We can fault both men, or neither man, for not meeting until after the best of their work had been done, but alas when a fight was agreed upon, it became a chance for redeeming this unfortunate historical fact. It also became a chance to see if either man was willing to risk bragging rights to truly make an effort and to risk a loss. Or? was the fight simply a money grab? a glorified sparring match that would simply let each great fighter leave the ring legacy in tact? Legacy is a strange thing though. When you turn on that truth machine in the boxing ring, can it truly be said to be left intact, if nothing was ventured, nothing was gained?

    The fight between these two was nothing. Neither man was willing to risk enough to win. The decision could have gone either way, nobody showed any ability to effect the other in the ring. It was a big rip off that showed how legacy is not truly respected, and a way to allow both men the right to say they had fought.

    You can fool boxing fans with alphabet soup... even getting ignorant fans to assert how the lineal is not needed. But there are still real fans that understand what a champion is, and how the plural case, in each weight class does not apply to the "champion" because there is no such thing as "champions." Mayweather versus Pac was in fact a lineal type affair, it was supposed to be "the man who beats the best is the best." What we got was an exhibition in how to use double talk and judges to avoid such a confrontation.
    Coverdale Coverdale likes this.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
      Here is my take: In boxing fights become truth machines... P o r n stars often speak of learning how to "perform" in front of an audience, but a fight is no mere performance, no mere mechanical act... Fights tell us about the fighters and that which esteems a great champion can just as quickly diminish him. Just ask Roberto Duran when he fought Leonard.

      We can fault both men, or neither man, for not meeting until after the best of their work had been done, but alas when a fight was agreed upon, it became a chance for redeeming this unfortunate historical fact. It also became a chance to see if either man was willing to risk bragging rights to truly make an effort and to risk a loss. Or? was the fight simply a money grab? a glorified sparring match that would simply let each great fighter leave the ring legacy in tact? Legacy is a strange thing though. When you turn on that truth machine in the boxing ring, can it truly be said to be left intact, if nothing was ventured, nothing was gained?

      The fight between these two was nothing. Neither man was willing to risk enough to win. The decision could have gone either way, nobody showed any ability to effect the other in the ring. It was a big rip off that showed how legacy is not truly respected, and a way to allow both men the right to say they had fought.

      You can fool boxing fans with alphabet soup... even getting ignorant fans to assert how the lineal is not needed. But there are still real fans that understand what a champion is, and how the plural case, in each weight class does not apply to the "champion" because there is no such thing as "champions." Mayweather versus Pac was in fact a lineal type affair, it was supposed to be "the man who beats the best is the best." What we got was an exhibition in how to use double talk and judges to avoid such a confrontation.
      From lurking the forum I knew I could count on you for a good response and you didn't disappoint.

      I very much enjoyed your thread about the lineal by the way.
      billeau2 billeau2 likes this.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Coverdale View Post

        From lurking the forum I knew I could count on you for a good response and you didn't disappoint.

        I very much enjoyed your thread about the lineal by the way.
        Thank you. Your topic is nice one. It is just about time that this fight enters the area of historical judgement!
        Coverdale Coverdale likes this.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

          Thank you. Your topic is nice one. It is just about time that this fight enters the area of historical judgement!
          Agreed. The combination of being aware of the imminent decade anniversary and witnessing an ongoing argument in the NSB compelled me to do this.

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          • #6
            I dunno bro, I get thrown in as a May lover and a Pac hater and I'm not guilty of any of the **** you said


            Money doesn't have much bull propping him up. It's not a bunch of smoke and mirrors. He really did fight a heap of champions. He really did earn every title in every division his fans claim. He doesn't need fans to refuse to acknowledge his official verdicts.

            I don't actually think Floyd's lightyears beyond Pac but when his fans go hard I don't have much to say about it because there isn't much to criticize. Things like "but he didn't fight X in Y month, he waited until Z doe!!!" just seems like whiney little ***** criticisms. Especially since the same posters are going to forgive the colorline fighters' ducking.

            Conversely, when Pac's fans get mouthy it's a bunch of **** like he won 8 weight divisions. Ass, lies, deceit, put an astrix on that **** because you know you're reaching.

            Pac did not really lose to X, Y, and Z. He were robbed. Bradley, Algeri, Horn , etc. while maintaining the idea it doesn't matter that JMM said he was robbed in their fights so now he's going for the KO to prove it and then proceeded to flatten Pac.



            Honestly could not give a **** less about the drugs.




            Floyd's win streak is 50

            Pac's is like 15 or some sad ass **** like that.

            Floyd's 50 fight win streak features 24 champions

            Pac's longest win streak being 15 who even gives a **** how that compares to Floyd's 24? There's no contest there.




            At the end of the day Pac's level is based on emotion and bull****. Floyd's is because you can't take it away from him. Pac is handed favoritism results for no reason while people bicker over Floyd's timing




            Nah, ain't no ****ing shelter here.




            That said, i don't actually go around looking to argue about Pac or even dislike him or rate him lowly. I just think his fans are loud, ******, emotional people who are mostly full of **** and suffer from a bad case of head-in-ass.
            JeBron Lamez JeBron Lamez likes this.

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            • #7
              Well you're not going to be thanking me for my response.

              Yet another opportunity for me to piss and moan about how much I dislike Mayweather Jr.

              I am watching an HBO fight, Money vs. A Somebody.

              The 'Somebody' has no skills that could match Mayweather Jr. and not an ounce of Rocky Marciano in him, to drive him forward to victory

              Mayweather on the other hand had no intention of taking any chances either.

              So there they were, sparring. They sparred the first round and then continued right up to the 12th, sparring.

              The 'somebody' had no chance, and Mayweather Jr. was taking no chances.

              I got annoyed. I paid for this?

              Then halfway through I noticed empty ringside seats. Empty ringside seats at a title fight? It seems those celebrity types, who sit ringside to be seen, didn't want to be seen. They left.

              I thought good, a message is sent to HBO, that should embarrass everyone involved. I hoped.

              But then Larry Merchant, never one to be respectful to anyone or anything, began talking about the NFL playoffs.

              There they were, sitting ringside at a title fight, and they were talking football (during the round).

              I think, well it can't get any worse.

              But, boxing never disappoints. So it got worse.

              Mayweather joined in the conversation. Something about betting on Buffalo. (Yes, during the round, while sparring, in a title fight.)

              That was it for me. I turned off the TV and never watched a Mayweather Jr. fight again.

              I don't give a tinker's damn about his skills, or his undefeated record or anything you all might have to say. Save it!

              Boxing today would be better off if Mayweather Jr. had never fought.

              P.S. That would make an interesting list. The top ten fighters boxing would have been better off if they hadn't fought. Dave Tiberri comes to mind quickly.

              P.S.S. You do notice, that the fight you are talking about (Money vs. Pac Man) was a stinker as well. No surprise.

              Isn't it interesting that this anniversary conversation you are having today is about the politics of that fight, and not the fight itself?

              That's because it was a stinker!

              P.S.S.S. There's another list. Which fighters gave us the most 'stinker' fights? I'm looking your way Ali.
              Last edited by Willie Pep 229; 04-24-2025, 04:32 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post
                Well you're not going to be thanking me for my response.

                Yet another opportunity for me to piss and moan about how much I dislike Mayweather Jr.

                I am watching an HBO fight, Money vs. A Somebody.

                The 'Somebody' has no skills that could match Mayweather Jr. and not an ounce of Rocky Marciano in him, to drive him forward to victory

                Mayweather on the other hand had no intention of taking any chances either.

                So there they were, sparring. They sparred the first round and then continued right up to the 12th, sparring.

                The 'somebody' had no chance, and Mayweather Jr. was taking no chances.

                I got annoyed. I paid for this?

                Then halfway through I noticed empty ringside seats. Empty ringside seats at a title fight? It seems those celebrity types, who sit ringside to be seen, didn't want to be seen. They left.

                I thought good, a message is sent to HBO, that should embarrass everyone involved. I hoped.

                But then Larry Merchant, never one to be respectful to anyone or anything, began talking about the NFL playoffs.

                There they were, sitting ringside at a title fight, and they were talking football (during the round).

                I think, well it can't get any worse.

                But, boxing never disappoints. So it got worse.

                Mayweather joined in the conversation. Something about betting on Buffalo. (Yes, during the round, while sparring, in a title fight.)

                That was it for me. I turned off the TV and never watched a Mayweather Jr. fight again.

                I don't give a tinker's damn about his skills, or his undefeated record or anything you all might have to say. Save it!

                Boxing today would be better off if Mayweather Jr. had never fought.

                P.S. That would make an interesting list. The top ten fighters boxing would have been better off if they hadn't fought. Dave Tiberri comes to mind quickly.

                P.S.S. You do notice, that the fight you are talking about (Money vs. Pac Man) was a stinker as well. No surprise.

                Isn't it interesting that this anniversary conversation you are having today is about the politics of that fight, and not the fight itself?

                That's because it was a stinker!

                P.S.S.S. There's another list. Which fighters gave us the most 'stinker' fights? I'm looking your way Ali.
                On stinky fights, Hopkins and Mayweather come to mind first. Two guys who could not win without stinking the place up. Never wanted to watch either of them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Coverdale View Post

                  Agreed. The combination of being aware of the imminent decade anniversary and witnessing an ongoing argument in the NSB compelled me to do this.
                  Yeah so many threads about who won lol. If ever there was a red herring that question about who won is it. We all lost!
                  Coverdale Coverdale likes this.

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                  • #10
                    Mayweather was imo fantastic at 130 and below, he also did something really gutsy leaving Arum. But alas, Freud in civilization and its discontent talks about the brothers killing the father to marry the mother and I'll be damned if Floyd did not kill Arum the father to take his place of worship at the feet of Lady prosperity of the gold chain and watch.

                    While we saw greatness with a chance now to run free, he saw the money that went into others pockets and where it would wind up in his pocket.

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