What if Gene Tunnney was un-defeated in 60+ fights?

[QueensburyRules]

Wills was a ****ing monster.

It is such a shame he hardly gets mentioned in ATG heavy discussions.

- - Heavyweight Results 1. Muhammad Ali (603) 2. Joe Louis (586) 3. Jack Dempsey (467) 4. Larry Holmes (452) 5. George Foreman (447) 6. Jack Johnson (432) 7. Rocky Marciano (412) 8. Sonny Liston (382) 9. Lennox Lewis (361) 10. Joe Frazier (349) 11. Mike Tyson (276) 12. Evander Holyfield (271) 13. James J Jeffries (264) 14. Gene Tunney (226) 15. Sam Langford (171) 16. Ezzard Charles (120) 17. Jersey Joe Walcott (88) 18. Wladimir Klitschko (86) 19. Vitaly Klitschko (83) 20. Rid**** Bowe (71) Other Top Voters (50 or more votes): Harry Wills (64), Jim Corbett (58), Bob Fitzsimmons (53)

[GhostofDempsey]

Wills was a ****ing monster.

It is such a shame he hardly gets mentioned in ATG heavy discussions.

It’s too bad Wills ducked Godfrey and refused to give him a shot at his World Colored Title. From ‘22 on his resume doesn’t stand up well enough to justify title shots, even though he was offered shots at Dempsey’s title and offered a lucrative fight with a Tunney. Wills relied heavily on his size advantage and excessive clinching. He was a dirty fighter who had been DQ’d nearly a half dozen times. I see no path to victory for Wills over Tunney.

[Bronson66]

it’s too bad wills ducked godfrey and refused to give him a shot at his world colored title. From ‘22 on his resume doesn’t stand up well enough to justify title shots, even though he was offered shots at dempsey’s title and offered a lucrative fight with a tunney. Wills relied heavily on his size advantage and excessive clinching. He was a dirty fighter who had been dq’d nearly a half dozen times. I see no path to victory for wills over tunney.

edited

[david Lan]

This is such a fascinating breakdown — the way old fights were judged really leaves room for a lot of “what ifs,” especially when there was no clear video evidence. I think we forget how much official decisions (or lack thereof) shaped fighters' careers permanently.

It kind of reminds me how in completely different fields like education, your official status can impact everything too. For example, in Mexico, many students often stress over checking their estatus beca Benito Juárez 2025 to ensure they don’t miss out on benefits they’ve earned — just like boxers back in the day didn’t want their hard-earned victories to be “missed” due to judging issues.

In both cases, the record matters — whether it’s in the ring or in academic support.

[Dr Z]

Gene Tunney is 65-1-1 at Box Rec.


But consider this:

I think Tunney was an outstanding boxer with a sterling record to match. He was never down except for the match vs. Dempsey, though I could be mistaken as new information comes on the old timers every do often. He retired in his prime, not sticking around to face Schemling, or Sharkey though I think he would have beaten them both in 1929 and 1930. And he did offer a past his prime Wills a fight.


I think his first fight with Greb he should be the winner on DQ or at least the fight should have been a No Contest.


Consider this news which there is no know film of:


According to various accounts, there are claims that Harry Greb used fouls during his fight against Gene Tunney on May 23, 1922, where he handed Tunney his only official defeat. Tunney himself described the fight in detail, mentioning the brutality and suggesting that Greb employed tactics that could be considered fouls:

• Tunney noted that Greb was using every trick and foul he had learned in his boxing career, which included headbutting Tunney multiple times during their bout. This is supported by reports that Tunney's nose was broken and his face was severely cut during the fight.
• Another source describes how Greb would foul Tunney, particularly by headbutting him, which led to Tunney's nose being broken in two places very early in the fight.
• There are also claims that Greb was known for appealing to illicit resources during fights, including in this match against Tunney, where he allegedly headbutted Tunney to break his nasal septum in round one.

There was a lot of blood on Tunney's face, but he was a not retreat no surrender type of fighter and went 15 hard rounds with the busted nose and his face covered in blood. When the fight ended, the crowd gave him a standing ovation for his courage. 9 out of 10 guys would have quit.

So in theory he could have been undefeated if the fouls by Greb were called and the fight he officially lost in the 5 fight series was ruled a NC or DQ. A great what if.

Tunney speaks of his lone offfical loss to Greb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLKw8uYkc3k

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[them_apples]

Gene Tunney is 65-1-1 at Box Rec.


But consider this:

I think Tunney was an outstanding boxer with a sterling record to match. He was never down except for the match vs. Dempsey, though I could be mistaken as new information comes on the old timers every do often. He retired in his prime, not sticking around to face Schemling, or Sharkey though I think he would have beaten them both in 1929 and 1930. And he did offer a past his prime Wills a fight.


I think his first fight with Greb he should be the winner on DQ or at least the fight should have been a No Contest.


Consider this news which there is no know film of:


According to various accounts, there are claims that Harry Greb used fouls during his fight against Gene Tunney on May 23, 1922, where he handed Tunney his only official defeat. Tunney himself described the fight in detail, mentioning the brutality and suggesting that Greb employed tactics that could be considered fouls:

• Tunney noted that Greb was using every trick and foul he had learned in his boxing career, which included headbutting Tunney multiple times during their bout. This is supported by reports that Tunney's nose was broken and his face was severely cut during the fight.
• Another source describes how Greb would foul Tunney, particularly by headbutting him, which led to Tunney's nose being broken in two places very early in the fight.
• There are also claims that Greb was known for appealing to illicit resources during fights, including in this match against Tunney, where he allegedly headbutted Tunney to break his nasal septum in round one.

There was a lot of blood on Tunney's face, but he was a not retreat no surrender type of fighter and went 15 hard rounds with the busted nose and his face covered in blood. When the fight ended, the crowd gave him a standing ovation for his courage. 9 out of 10 guys would have quit.

So in theory he could have been undefeated if the fouls by Greb were called and the fight he officially lost in the 5 fight series was ruled a NC or DQ. A great what if.​
​

I think the opposite. Greb beat him 3 times. Greb was a dirty fighter, but he just overwhelmed Tunney in every fight except the one where he was damaged goods from car accidents and ring wear. Greb had a broken arm that healed bent. Broken ribs from car accidents that Tunney reactivated and a missing eye. The first 3 bouts sounded like Tunney got gifts to preserve a bout with Dempsey

Tunney was a top tier fighter though. Probably better than we even think