Marciano threw nearly 700 punches at Archie Moore in just 9 rounds

[Mr Mitts]

IÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂd take that bet, Marciano hammers Tyson to the Canvas

we have a few glimpses of Tyson against shorter fighters: and he did a lot of missing and swinging. They were c class heavyweights like Mathis Jr

we have Tyson fighting inside with a tough guy like Holyfield, he got beat up bad.

we have Tyson in his biggest fights losing every single time, at 27 years of age.

With Marciano we have an incredibly tough inside fighter, known for his strength, stamina, chin and will power

Mike Tysons weight was nothing out of the ordinary. 215-216 lbs in his prime.

Marciano is lighter, this is the only, and I mean only apparent knock against him. He showed he can ice men all weights. The best guys he fought were lighter - but he did knock out some heavy big guys coming up.

If you donÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt agree with me - I at least question why or how you could write Marciano off in a h2h brawl with Tyson. It just seems like Marciano has everything that Tyson hates.

Marciano is tougher and meaner than Holyfield. He is has almost total immunity to damage. Walcott knocked out plenty of larger men - sat Louis on his pants nicely - sparked Charles ice cold. Marcianos looked like a grizzley bear getting bonked in the head with a dodge ball. Marciano got up with completely solid legs and proceeded to almost kill Walcott.

even in the event that Tyson hits harder - do you really think Tyson ever showed the capability to stop a man like Marciano in his prime?

as for Power - itâÂÂs all about leverage. I canâÂÂt prove it - but from my own personal eye test and understanding of punching - Marciano is probably the hardest hitting heavyweight I have ever watched. Its because of his short arms and strength. Just by virtue of leverage. He doesnâÂÂt have long lanky limbs. He has these stubs he can wallop you with.


muhammad Ali did say Marciano hit very hard - it shook his kin folk back in africa
I donÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt get this forum sometimes

I find it incredulous to hear that Rock, without any qualification, punched harder than Tyson. At their respective weights they were two of the hardest punching individuals ever, but remember, their prime weights were not near the same; prime Tyson was 30 lbs. heavier.

Rocky is barely shorter than Mike, just a lot smaller in build when you look things over good. Plus Mike has the big advantage of top notch technique in his power punches. He also recovers form quicker from wild misses. Prime Mike is faster, more mobile, far more accurate, a better combination puncher, starts as fast, is far more evasive and took a pretty excellent shot himself, and even good combinations of shots until he finally ever caved in. His chin may not have been quite up to Rocky's P4P level but then again we don't know. Rock was not trying to take the punches of prime Ruddock, Lewis, Holyfield, Bruno and Berbick, Golata, and Douglas in the best performance of his career, either. Tyson has done that and at least survived until he was well battered, when not long out of prison, or well over the hill for Holyfield and Lewis, and no one can deny, Douglas, which he went into head fcked and emerged from in rapid decline.

Mid range is Tyson's forte, and they will spend plenty of time where Mike lives, not that he was a truly poor inside fighter either by any means. Mike has a preferred range and is more mobile than Rock and can find it, as it has to occur over and over in the natural course of any match as a man moves in.

Mike has far too much respect for Rocky to come rushing out like a dumb bull. Still I expect him to explode early. I expect early sporadic combos will overwhelm and shake the blockbuster before he really has a chance to try much. If not KO'd right there, Rock will be softened up for the next combo or the next, a little more each time.

I suspect Rock could not take his own punch all night, but delivered faster, sharper, more accurately and in more rapid succession. Under such circumstances, I don't believe he could, and I am going to insist on nothing more than you at least admit the two subjects were pretty damned close in power.

And you know full well the only quality fighters Marciano KO'd early while anywhere near their primes, was none of them, whereas Tyson KO'd some pretty decent prime fighters, dicere, by round 3 or earlier.

To me, the poor Rock has only two real advantages, and one maybe going in--heart, stamina and maybe chin. All the fighters of quality he KO'd early were unknown scrubs or too far over the hill on ancient legs to make enough deliveries efficiently and for long enough, simply because they were well shot by the time he was able to fight them..

The supposed advantage of leverage in short arms vs long arms I have to guess is fiction not physics. I used to think that way. But imagine a merry-go-round. The fist of a mounted shorter arm travels at an absolute speed slower than a mounted longer simply because it does not stick out as far. The energy source of the two arms is the same. I believe that is physics. With his technical punching form Tyson takes better and more efficient advantage of leverage more often, like the mounted longer arm will do every time. This goes for hooks as well as straight punches. The mounted longer arm is still longer. Speed is definitely in the equation for sudden impact force.

Keep up the good work if it spurs legitimate discussion.

[Marchegiano]

People use the wrong terms and do not know what they're looking for or why once you look at boxing from a physics perspective.

Straight up bro, you're not finding out who has more power from who they hit. Chin, no chin, these are boxing fans terms medical professionals and physicists don't use or acknowledge. I am a prosthetist. Bit of both.

In terms of impact we know both men can kill any man with one punch. Why Mike and Rock didn't murder folks is more to do with boxing and defense than their power or their opponent's "chin". Both men can kill any man. Or to say that differently both men have measured punches that mean death.

Unfortunately they use different UI so I can't simply convert.


950ft-lbs = Rocky = Death
vs
1800 PSI = Mike = Death

I'll tell you bluntly there is no direct way to compare these stats. PSI was probably used because most people know what PSI is and FT-LBS has to be explained to most people. FT-LBS was used because it is the standard UI for measuring the energy output of a projectile.

Yes, as far as physics are concerned the fist is a projectile. Some folks don't like those semantics but Tf take it up with science not me.

Since PSI = Pressure, not force, energy, or power, I can't convert it to anything directly comparable.

Since FT-LBS is an Energy UI I can't convert it to anything directly comparable to pressure either.

You can have 1800 PSI and barely feel it, that's wind. You can have far less PSI and get hurt a lot more, that's a pressure washer. It tells me the pounds per square inch ... you have just a ton of pounds per square inch on you atm but it's so spread.

I would have to guess the needed info to make the conversion.



That **** covered I can make this more real-world though.

FT-LBS is the standard for measuring projectile energy so let's just see where ol Rocco matches up in them guns.

• .380 ACP: 199 ft-lbf
• .38 Special: 310 ft-lbf
• 9mm Luger: 350 ft-lbf
• .45 Colt: 370 ft-lbf
• .45 GAP: 400 ft-lbf
• .45 ACP: 400 ft-lbf
• .40 S&W: 425 ft-lbf
• .357 Sig: 475 ft-lbf
• .357 Magnum: 550 ft-lbf
• 10mm Auto: 650 ft-lbf
• .44 Magnum: 1,000 ft-lbf

Damn Rock, be murdering fools if you touch them with that 925 son


FT-LBS is also the standard for torque in vehicles

• Small engines (1.0L - 1.4L): 70-120 ft-lbs (e.g., Ford Fiesta 1.0L EcoBoost: 125 ft-lbs)
• Compact engines (1.5L - 2.0L): 120-180 ft-lbs (e.g., Honda Civic 1.5L Turbo: 162 ft-lbs)
• Mid-size engines (2.0L - 2.5L): 150-220 ft-lbs (e.g., Subaru WRX 2.0L Turbo: 258 ft-lbs)
• Large engines (2.5L - 3.5L): 200-300 ft-lbs (e.g., Toyota Camry 3.5L V6: 267 ft-lbs)
• V6 engines (3.0L - 3.8L): 250-350 ft-lbs (e.g., Nissan 370Z 3.7L V6: 276 ft-lbs)
• V8 engines (4.0L - 5.0L): 350-450 ft-lbs (e.g., Ford Mustang 5.0L V8: 420 ft-lbs)
• Large V8 engines (5.5L - 6.2L): 450-550 ft-lbs (e.g., Chevrolet Corvette 6.2L V8: 460 ft-lbs)
• High-performance engines (e.g., turbocharged or supercharged): 500-700 ft-lbs (e.g., Dodge Challenger Hellcat 6.2L V8: 650 ft-lbs)
• Exotic or high-end engines: 700-1,000 ft-lbs (e.g., Bugatti Chiron 8.0L W16: 1,180 ft-lbs)

Damn Rocco, you can stop a ****ing charged hellcat with a punch? ****ing killer.


Get me? When people talk about Marciano they miss the big picture. Who compares, **** that, how is this humanly possible? Who gives a flying **** if Rocky knocked Roland out the ring but Mike knocked Tillis tooth out doe? Rocky Marciano put out more in his fist that your gun and car, combined, probably. WTF bro?



COMPARED TO


You can go feel 1800 PSI in about the space of a fist by ****ing being sprayed by a firehose.

Set your pressure masher to 1800 PSI and give that a feel. Don't, you won't have skin.

Hydraulics at 1800 psi can do hella work

You can probably see the comparison issue though. A water hose has a much different impact than a rock being tossed at the same pressure.

PSI does not and can not speak to impact. Which is what you're after. FT-LBS is derived from impact, it can not speak to pressure.

Or to say that differently, we all know no man can simply eat 925ft-lbs to the head and likewise we know it is possible to walk through 1800 psi to the dome without feeling much but a breeze.




So the science you're looking for ... ... ... **** you ... is boxing's answer.


And since I have you, yeah bro, it's hella frustrating dealing with a heap of science deniers who call their sport the sweet science but that is what boxing is. You ever seen a prosthetist in the cutman spot and a physicist in the head trainer's spot? Why TF not? Because y'all believe in BS cutman voodoo magic and BS trainer handmedown practices over medical and physical sciences while calling it sweet science and claiming medical and technological advances improve the sport. :lol:


Who hit harder doesn't matter though, they both hit hard enough to kill, mame, injure and we have all the science you need to know that is true.










What every man ought to wonder is not how 222 pound mike tyson mimics a firehose but how 185lb marciano mimics a ****ing .44/hellcat. The answer there is kinematic chains bro. Rocky's gonna ****ing kill the other jabroni if the other jabroni isn't good enough. The physics say Marciano punches to murder and his opponents were simply too good to be caught too often with murder punches. Mike, however, has less nice kinematic chains. Which means his 1800 psi MIGHT just bounce off sometimes. This is boxing not deficit. Do you see how many more punches Mike slips or attempts to? He's boxing, so he's not throwing with everything he could. Marciano boxes less, throws with more.







I am perfectly capable of doing the math and giving you some numbers based on video but given it is video it's kind of ****.


I need the weight of the object being punched and how far it was moved by a punch and that's it. I could give a better figure to compare with ft-lbs to ft-lbs instead of PSI but video being video we all know I could never get distances 100% accurate. LMK if you are interested in inaccurate averages that are comparable or if accurate incompatible UI is plenty close enough.




Edit- I feel i did a bad job for Mike by not including fist size. We do know because of his fist size it's gonna hurt, he could kill, but that gives us a range of possible energy that's both significantly above and below Marciano's 925, which, doesn't help us any more than anything else I did explain.

Additionally, if you missed it, the point of this ramble was science will not help you because boxing doesn't have enough science to do any good garage science with, but it can enlighten you enough to let you know most of what people say is ****** and besides the point.