Why not Holmes over Ali?

[JAB5239]

Just got home from work. Book came today, still haven't returned DVD. Quick look in the Holmes section reveals everything Bronson has said to not only factual but verbatim. Holmes was NEVER kicked out of Ali's camp. Is my word enough, or do we need pictures. If so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. Can we put this BS thread to bed now Z? You were wrong. That's it.

[Bronson66]

Just got home from work. Book came today, still haven't returned DVD. Quick look in the Holmes section reveals everything Bronson has said to not only factual but verbatim. Holmes was NEVER kicked out of Ali's camp. Is my word enough, or do we need pictures. If so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. Can we put this BS thread to bed now Z? You were wrong. That's it.

An admission he was wrong would be good ,but highly unlikely. He never admitted he was wrong on the other comparisons between Holmes and Ali ,when I pointed them out ,and he won't now.
He is known on Classic as a barefaced liar and was called it several times ,nothing shames him,not lying, not reneging on a bet,he is a miserable example of a human being,whose favourite ploy is to accuse others of his own failings, a de****able person.
What you have done in buying the book,I did years ago over a dispute with him about the famous old time referee George Siler,Z began posting words that Siler had never said,and quoting him out of context to put down Jack Johnson ,so I bought Siler's book,
"Inside Facts On Pugilism",and corrected him , and I also pointed out to him Siler died before Johnson won the title.

He then went silent on the subject.

I predicted that when he came back here he would start where he left off, putting down great champs like,Johnson, Ali, and Louis,and he did. Another favourite target for him is Frazier.
You won't however, hear any criticism from him about Jim Jeffries or the Klit Brothers though,I wonder why that is?

[Dr. Z]

Just got home from work. Book came today, still haven't returned DVD. Quick look in the Holmes section reveals everything Bronson has said to not only factual but verbatim. Holmes was NEVER kicked out of Ali's camp. Is my word enough, or do we need pictures. If so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. Can we put this BS thread to bed now Z? You were wrong. That's it.

You just got home at nearly 12 AM? You don't work normal hours, do you? Get some rest. You did not read the entire book and given your mistake by ordering the DVD I'll settle with a well rested JAB reply who read 100% of the Holmes part of the book. Fair enough?

[JAB5239]

You just got home at nearly 12 AM? You don't work normal hours, do you? Get some rest. You did not read the entire book and given your mistake by ordering the DVD I'll settle with a well rested JAB reply who read 100% of the Holmes part of the book. Fair enough?

No, I don't work normal hours, and yesterday was a 12hr day. But I did read the section on Holmes. You can choose to believe me and admit you're wrong, or we can wager one of us leaves this site after putting the apology in a sig and I can prove you wrong with pictures of the page, book, and a personalized note to you in that picture. Your choice.

[Bronson66]

You just got home at nearly 12 AM? You don't work normal hours, do you? Get some rest. You did not read the entire book and given your mistake by ordering the DVD I'll settle with a well rested JAB reply who read 100% of the Holmes part of the book. Fair enough?

He doesn't need to read the entire book,it's a collection of interviews with opponents of Ali.The only part relevant to this thread is the Holmes chapter[15] , which he has told you he's read !.Pages 279 to 298.
It doesn't sound like you have read it,yet you were telling us to read it and what was in it!

"I've never heard Ali kicked Holmes out of any fight camp. Don't recall Holmes ever mentioning this in his autobiography. He did kick Roy Williams out when Williams demanded to get paid for an undercard fight that got scratched, if memory serves." Jab



"Holmes mentions it." Z


Caught out yet again!
Got any response to your opening statements being corrected by me below?
Its reasonable for anyone to say there isn't a hairs breath between Ali and Holmes for talent ,but not for the reasons quoted,simply because they are false

Ali beat over 30 Ring ranked contenders and champions that's over twice as many as Holmes.
Strike One!

Ali was only floored by 1 non Ring top ten ranked fighter Sonny Banks . Cooper was no 10.Wepner ,[ if anyone is desperate enough to count that,] was no9 Frazier was Champ.

Holmes was floored by unranked Kevin Isaac.and unranked Renaldo Snipes!
StrikeTwo!

Holmes did not have a good left hook.Ali floored and ko'd iron chinned Bonavena with left hooks.
Strike Three!

Holmes had major issues with Carl Williams jab and Ken Norton's jab. Newsflash everyone has issues with great jabbers! Strike Four!

Holmes was not sacked by Ali ,he and his then manager decided it was time to try and make there way and establish Larry in the division and left voluntarily.Holmes has spoken about this on video several times.
Strike Five!

Holmes had a slightly better chin? Did he? Was it tested against Foreman,Lyle, Frazier,Liston? Shavers dropped a prime Holmes,he couldn't drop a past prime Ali.
Strike Six!

It's **** or get off the pot time for Dr Z !
You wanted it on record,you're going to get your wish!

[Dr. Z]

No, I don't work normal hours, and yesterday was a 12hr day. But I did read the section on Holmes. You can choose to believe me and admit you're wrong, or we can wager one of us leaves this site after putting the apology in a sig and I can prove you wrong with pictures of the page, book, and a personalized note to you in that picture. Your choice.

Okay, I'll will go on your word that you not were tried and it was not in the book Facing Ali. For the puropse of the thread, I admit I was wrong on the book, but not on the point that Holmes would have beaten Ali much sonner in the time fought in ( 1979 or 1978 ) or likley in 1977. As it was, they fought in 1980 and Ali did win any round.

[JT1]

- - Two of the protagonists go back to the poisonous East something forum, now carrying their feud here.

OP made a ****** unsupportable topic and now the shyte is piled a mile high... a long time ago...

Yeah, front row seat for over 15 years. There was a set bunch of agendas. The tactic was to to try to fly one, then when that was shut down with inarguable facts shelf it and regurgitate in a year or so in the hope everyone had forgotten. A bunch of agendas and fantasies in a giant slow moving washing machine. Death, taxes and said agendas coming back around again.

[Bronson66]

okay, i'll will go on your word that you not were tried and it was not in the book facing ali. For the puropse of the thread, i admit i was wrong on the book, but not on the point that holmes would have beaten ali much sonner in the time fought in ( 1979 or 1978 ) or likley in 1977. As it was, they fought in 1980 and ali did win any round.

tried puropse sonner likley?

[Bronson66]

Yeah, front row seat for over 15 years. There was a set bunch of agendas. The tactic was to to try to fly one, then when that was shut down with inarguable facts shelf it and regurgitate in a year or so in the hope everyone had forgotten. A bunch of agendas and fantasies in a giant slow moving washing machine. Death, taxes and said agendas coming back around again.

Let us see if the statement "Ali kicked Holmes out of his camp," "re-surfaces" in a year or so.


As these old chestnuts regularly do.

" Gunboat Smith scored a tko over Jack Johnson ".

"Lewis cut Vitali with the tape on his gloves".

"Johnson went to hospital after the Burns fight"

"Johnson and Jeffries were level after 10rds"

"The Fitzsimmons v Ruhlin fight was filmed"

"Burns had jaundice against Johnson".

"Jeannette weighed 165lbs for his last fight with Johnson"

"Johnson was so groggy after the Ketchel KD he had to lean on the ropes to support himself"

" Johnson fouled in lots of his fights"

"Johnson quit against Klon***e"

"Joe Louis had judges and referee's in his pocket"

"After fighting Ocasio,Lennox Lewis said he would never fight another southpaw"

"Carlos Monzon was knocked down by Jorge Fernandez"


When you tell lies on the internet,they are there forever.

[Dr. Z]

B

ronson66

Let us see if the statement "Ali kicked Holmes out of his camp," "re-surfaces" in a year or so.


As these old chestnuts regularly do.

" Gunboat Smith scored a tko over Jack Johnson ".

"Lewis cut Vitali with the tape on his gloves".

"Johnson went to hospital after the Burns fight"

"Johnson and Jeffries were level after 10rds"

"The Fitzsimmons v Ruhlin fight was filmed"

"Burns had jaundice against Johnson".

"Jeannette weighed 165lbs for his last fight with Johnson"

"Johnson was so groggy after the Ketchel KD he had to lean on the ropes to support himself"

" Johnson fouled in lots of his fights"

"Johnson quit against Klon***e"

"Joe Louis had judges and referee's in his pocket"

"After fighting Ocasio,Lennox Lewis said he would never fight another southpaw"

"Carlos Monzon was knocked down by Jorge Fernandez"


When you tell lies on the internet,they are there forever.

Tony McVey, Tonto62, Ivich or whatever other name you been BANNED under. AND Bronson ( all the same guy ). Listen up because I only intended to stay this once.

I said Gunboat TKO'd him in a 4 rounder, it was an exhibition match. His manager halted the match when Jack saw stars and was down out from a punch . What do you call that result?

Fight news reported that Lewis had loose tape on the glove, not I.

Fitz vs Ruhlin was filmed. You are a bet welcher.

Burns is reported having a Jaundice and look yellow. Read the Burns book! It is right there. Or read Kevin Smith. As it was, Johnson beat on a 168 pound sickly man.

According to Jeannette, not Me, he weighed 165 pounds. And Johnnon low blowed him and was DQ'd , yet somehow kept his title.

The NY Times, not I said Johsnson was groggy, and he struggled to get up. He was as resting on the ropes and still dazzed when the fightended accoding to the NY Times..

Johsnon did foul in several of his fights so are on film, others are news reported.

According to two books, Johnson quit in one the the kl@n***e fights. You really are an idiot.

Yes, It is my opinion that Louis had some favorable judgement and his manager was convicted on Money running. You did hear of the fixed fights problems at MSG in the 1930's and 1940's? Maybe you didn't

It was my mistake and I said so. Lewis fourth just one southpaw early in his career. It was Gorell a 21-7 fighter who had lost 2 of his last 4. ,Louis foght none. Got that.

SI reported Mozon down vs. Ferenadez