How would you coach Foreman to overcome Ali's hand speed in the rematch that never happened?

[automaton89]

Foreman is a far superior fighter to Ali, he destroyed every opponent Ali had wars with.

However, Foreman was caught of guard by Alis hand speed, and I feel these would bother him no matter what strategy.

The problem for Foreman is that his power is going to put Ali away, so how does he win if he is constantly second to the punch

[GhostofDempsey]

Not sure Foreman was far better than Ali, but he was better than his performance that night. He got suckered into the rope-a-dope and punched himself out. He later claimed he was fatigued before ever getting in the ring and suggested he may have been drugged and said he was exhausted by third round.

All that aside, how would I coach him to fight Ali? Use his jab, double and triple the jab while closing the distance and keeping Ali from getting off his punches. Invest to the body, and use those uppercuts when he gets in close. Tie him up and push his weight on Ali’s legs, don’t allow him to get into a rhythm. Work with him on cutting off the ring and not giving Ali room to maneuver. Make it an inside fight. Don’t try to beat him with one punch at a time from long range.

[automaton89]

Not sure Foreman was far better than Ali, .

Not sure?

WC foreman destroyed Norton -who'm Ali arguably never beat in 3 fights. Destroyed Frazier twice - whom Ali arguably only beat 1 time out of 3, all closely contested bouts.

Foreman did struggle with Lyle but he was low on confidence and only his chin got him through there

[soul_survivor]

Ali didn't just beat Foreman with hand speed, he beat him with brains and resilience. No version of Foreman in the 70s beats Ali of 74. Unless its Ali of 78 for instance.

Some fighters just have your number.

[Kid Cauliflower]

You could train to do better but he is unlikely to win.

First of all, a good number of top rated boxers who lose embarrassingly say they must have been drugged. Did Ali sneak into his dressing room and mickey him?

He fought real stupidly, and you will pay for stupidity in the ring. I can't think of another big time fight that was fought so stupidly.

Would he have won a second fight? Just maybe. Was Archie Moore in his corner that night? I know Archie would not tell him to do that.

The thing is, I have noticed that fighting very slick boxers who will fight back really tires opponents out. I think of Mayweather. Opponents must get tense trying to find a way in but usually getting hit instead. It is an old boxing maxim that missing a punch wears you out more than landing one, and George is still going to miss a bunch. I think the punch that sails on by the opponent is the worst kind for stamina. That will happen more if Ali fights at a greater distance.

Ali had as much instinct for fighting as any champion ever in any weight class. You can't teach instinct. George's instinct was rather mediocre as a young champion. It did get better in his 2nd career after 10 years reflection.

A rematch might have been the greatest fight ever. Why would George want me to train him? I think my advice would be hire Archie Moore as you head trainer.

[automaton89]

You could train to do better but he is unlikely to win.

First of all, a good number of top rated boxers who lose embarrassingly say they must have been drugged. Did Ali sneak into his dressing room and mickey him?

He fought real stupidly, and you will pay for stupidity in the ring. I can't think of another big time fight that was fought so stupidly.

Would he have won a second fight? Just maybe. Was Archie Moore in his corner that night? I know Archie would not tell him to do that.

The thing is, I have noticed that fighting very slick boxers who will fight back really tires opponents out. I think of Mayweather. Opponents must get tense trying to find a way in but usually getting hit instead. It is an old boxing maxim that missing a punch wears you out more than landing one, and George is still going to miss a bunch. I think the punch that sails on by the opponent is the worst kind for stamina. That will happen more if Ali fights at a greater distance.

Ali had as much instinct for fighting as any champion ever in any weight class. You can't teach instinct. George's instinct was rather mediocre as a young champion. It did get better in his 2nd career after 10 years reflection.

A rematch might have been the greatest fight ever. Why would George want me to train him? I think my advice would be hire Archie Moore as you head trainer.

Why did George accept the fight in a tropical climate? He clearly didn't handle it as well

[Kid Cauliflower]

Why did George accept the fight in a tropical climate? He clearly didn't handle it as well

Probably money. He was from Houston and must have figured he could handle heat.

[GhostofDempsey]

Not sure?

WC foreman destroyed Norton -who'm Ali arguably never beat in 3 fights. Destroyed Frazier twice - whom Ali arguably only beat 1 time out of 3, all closely contested bouts.

Foreman did struggle with Lyle but he was low on confidence and only his chin got him through there

Triangle theories rarely work for me. Hearns KO'd Duran, Benitez beat Duran, Duran beat Leonard and lost to him, and Duran is still regarded as a greater P4P fighter than Hearns, Benitez and arguably Leonard, despite losing to them.

Norton and Frazier were different styles. Norton wasn't a great boxer, but he was a great athlete. Futch trained him how to beat Ali. The style match up with Foreman was all wrong for him. Frazier's crouching, inside style played right into George's uppercuts, he was just too big and strong for him. Brute strength and force is what beat Frazier.

I'm not a Ali fan, he was a flawed fighter who could get away with those flaws with his speed, reflexes, footwork and great chin in a division full of slower, plodding fighters. He got a few gifts in his career but he fought everyone that was there at the time.

[automaton89]

Triangle theories rarely work for me. Hearns KO'd Duran, Benitez beat Duran, Duran beat Leonard and lost to him, and Duran is still regarded as a greater P4P fighter than Hearns, Benitez and arguably Leonard, despite losing to them.

Norton and Frazier were different styles. Norton wasn't a great boxer, but he was a great athlete. Futch trained him how to beat Ali. The style match up with Foreman was all wrong for him. Frazier's crouching, inside style played right into George's uppercuts, he was just too big and strong for him. Brute strength and force is what beat Frazier.

I'm not a Ali fan, he was a flawed fighter who could get away with those flaws with his speed, reflexes, footwork and great chin in a division full of slower, plodding fighters. He got a few gifts in his career but he fought everyone that was there at the time.

You argued against yourself there. Since Frazier and Norton were not the same style of fighters, it was clearly not due to style.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Not having Sadler drug him and having a ref with a fair count would dump Ali inside 3.