Marciano considered a heavy hitter?

[BKM-]

Rocky put his entire body into the punches, and had the same power for 15 rounds long. Yeah, he absolutely deserves the recognition for his power and is IMO one of the hardest hitters ever.

[Princemanspopa]

The thread's about Marciano, you spanner.. At what point did I bring Clay into it?.... But now you come to mention it lol, I'll play your silly guessing game & assume that you think Liston was prime when he beat Patterson the 1st time, but not prime when he lost the 1st time to Clay?

Now you're making assumptions malone,very typical of you.No Liston wasn't in his prime against Patterson or Clay,anybody who has followed his career would know this,but I didn't expect anything less from you,you've only seen Liston's fights against Patterson and Clay.

ThegreatA brought up Liston in an attempt to discredit him and you followed it up by questioning Liston's heart.


Read your own posts you clodge.

[TheGreatA]

Now you're making assumptions malone,very typical of you.No Liston wasn't in his prime against Patterson or Clay,anybody who has followed his career would know this,but I didn't expect anything less from you,you've only seen Liston's fights against Patterson and Clay.

ThegreatA brought up Liston in an attempt to discredit him and you followed it up by questioning Liston's heart.


Read your own posts you clodge.

I didn't attempt to discredit Sonny Liston. I stated facts, he was green and nowhere near to being a contender for Marciano's title in 1955.

I believe Liston would give Rocky a beating at his best but saying Marciano ducked him is revisionist history. He didn't make his mark until 1958-1959 when Marciano was long retired.

[them_apples]

I mean back in rockys time they used 6 ounce gloves, so I guess he was a heavy hitter in his day. But now? Idk compared to all the heavy hitters after him, I dont think he is a heavy hitter now.

I didnt think they used 6 oz gloves..

Maybe 8's or 10's at HW

Eitherway, I think he was a solid puncher with a ton of stamina. I don't think he was a huge puncher though.

The man was a very, VERY small heavyweight, although strong I think his small size is what allowed him to keep going and not tire. The mans reach is 67" which is the same as Miguel Cotto, his chest was smaller than Juan Manuel Marquez'

[Benny Leonard]

I didnt think they used 6 oz gloves..

Maybe 8's or 10's at HW

Eitherway, I think he was a solid puncher with a ton of stamina. I don't think he was a huge puncher though.

The man was a very, VERY small heavyweight, although strong I think his small size is what allowed him to keep going and not tire. The mans reach is 67" which is the same as Miguel Cotto, his chest was smaller than Juan Manuel Marquez'

8oz gloves. Not sure with all fights but I do remember watching some of the Joe Louis fight footage(s) and hearing the commentator mention that Joe is wearing 8oz gloves...as well as hearing it on other fights from back then. I think 10oz gloves are a new thing. 10oz gloves also bother me because now we saw Vegas move the glove size up even in the lower-weight division, like the WW division on up. Not sure if that is mandatory still but it is not something I like. Gloves shouldn't be higher than 8oz for a fight. This is a fight, not sparring. If anything, lower weight classes should have the choice to wear 6-8oz gloves...with the HWs being 8oz.

Stamina:
Besides being incredibly conditioned, Rocky stayed relaxed when fighting...that helps stamina. But yes, I do agree that weight had something to do with it as well. Rocky was not a big 200+ pound HW...he was more like a modern LH (who comes in at 185+ by fight-time). To compare his stamina, it is best to compare it with others around his weight and not the 200+ pound HWs. Either way, he was superb.

We also have to remember that stamina can be depleted based on the opponent's ability to apply pressure and punches on you. Someone like a prime Foreman could take the steam out of you with his body punches which is also why I don't agree with posters that say, "All you have to do is last to this round and then you can take this opponent." Well, only true if you haven't taken a lot of hits yourself and still have the stamina to do it because one or several of those blows could have affected your stamina.
Here is a quick example: Margarito had very good stamina but I think that big shot to the mid-section early from Shane depleted Margarito fast and he never recovered...and then was worn down by Shane's attack.
Smaller guys can also be worn down by fighting bigger, stronger, heavier opponents that know how to use their weight and strength to their advantage.


For Power: I don't think Marciano had the power of a Foreman or Shavers.
People have to remember that he threw a lot of punches for a reason...he wore them down...unless someone wants to say that he rarely landed out of those 80+ or so punches he was said to throw a round. It's not like he was a fighter that was holding back with his power either like some fighters do to just box and pick you off.
He did have power though, no question about that.

[louis54]

liston and marciano almost went at it int the sixties. liston told marciano he would have whipped him in a wise guy manner and marciano said, really well lets see right after this interview, ill get my gear right now and well see right now, im seriuos. they had to hustle liston away from marciano.

[Benny Leonard]

liston and marciano almost went at it int the sixties. liston told marciano he would have whipped him in a wise guy manner and marciano said, really well lets see right after this interview, ill get my gear right now and well see right now, im seriuos. they had to hustle liston away from marciano.

Yeah, I read about that too. There is an article that mentioned it. Can't remember if it was actually in the S.I. vault or something else.

I think Marciano would have been way over his head and pride got in the way.

Liston's team weren't going to let him get in any tustle with Marciano because of the Mob...is what my guess is. Plus the perception of it to the public (especially in that era).

[0Rooster4Life0]

Rocky was a fantastic Puncher,

he didnt have a Punch Like George Foreman, or a Sonny Liston

His Power Was more like a clubbing punch, He would Beat You down.

the morning after a fight you are usally Sore on the face arms and Torso.

When you fight rocky you wake up the next morning and feel like you have been put through a meat tenderizer, You would Hurt From the top of your head down to the bottom of your feet.


To Answer the Q, Is he a Heavyhitter? Ofcourse He Is.

[mickey malone]

Now you're making assumptions malone,very typical of you.No Liston wasn't in his prime against Patterson or Clay,anybody who has followed his career would know this,but I didn't expect anything less from you,you've only seen Liston's fights against Patterson and Clay.

ThegreatA brought up Liston in an attempt to discredit him and you followed it up by questioning Liston's heart.


Read your own posts you clodge.

I know bundles about Liston, but there's not much point in discussing them with you, because YOU will ASSUME that I've consulted BOXREC, which is your favourite accusation isn't it?... Universally handed out to all who disagree with you..

However, the truth is that Sonny DID have 2 dubious fights with Clay, and YES, I would question his heart against a dynamo like Marciano..
As good as Liston was, he wasn't great.. I'd say he peaked around the time he KO'd Folley, but other than Folley & Patterson who did he beat?... Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen, who had already lost to Patterson, and a past prime Nino Valdez..

Hardly murderers row is it?

[Princemanspopa]

However, the truth is that Sonny DID have 2 dubious fights with Clay, and YES, I would question his heart against a dynamo like Marciano..
As good as Liston was, he wasn't great.. I'd say he peaked around the time he KO'd Folley, but other than Folley & Patterson who did he beat?... Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen, who had already lost to Patterson, and a past prime Nino Valdez..

Hardly murderers row is it?

I ask this,why do you insist on making yourself look like a prat? Liston beat Machen four years before Floyd had fought him.Considering how much you frequent Boxrec,I would have assumed that you would have known this already.

Cleveland Williams,Zora Folley,Floyd Patterson,Eddie Machen were all top heavyweights with a working pulse when they fought Liston.Can you say the same for Rocky Marciano's resume?

Don't try and cut down Sonny Liston's resume and accomplishment,it's quite clear you know nothing about the man,the fighter and legacy of this legitimate all time great.