One thing Marciano was great at

[them_apples]

Those 15th round furious assaults he would dish out on someone he was trying to knock out. Thats not an effort of someone tired trying really hard: no it’s someone with 20 more rounds in the tank wasting as much fuel as possible trying to destroy someone.

if fights were long enough Marciano beats everyone

[kara]

Those 15th round furious assaults he would dish out on someone he was trying to knock out. Thats not an effort of someone tired trying really hard: no itâs someone with 20 more rounds in the tank wasting as much fuel as possible trying to destroy someone.

if fights were long enough Marciano beats everyone

Too bad guys cant even last 12 rounds these days without gassing

[Bundana]

Those 15th round furious assaults he would dish out on someone he was trying to knock out. Thats not an effort of someone tired trying really hard: no itâs someone with 20 more rounds in the tank wasting as much fuel as possible trying to destroy someone.

if fights were long enough Marciano beats everyone

Yes, Marciano had amazing stamina... but for that to become a factor, he has to last more than just a few rounds. Which I think would be a tall order, against the best of today's SHWs!

[Dr. Z]

Those 15th round furious assaults he would dish out on someone he was trying to knock out. Thats not an effort of someone tired trying really hard: no itâs someone with 20 more rounds in the tank wasting as much fuel as possible trying to destroy someone.

if fights were long enough Marciano beats everyone

Maybe against men his size and typically those older than him. Rocky had 15 round stamina and IMO could go 20 rounds or more.

But he is really limited the in a sense. He had heart and the mindset to endure much.

These old time heavyweights Rocky's size ( under 210 pounds ) are best talked about in their own time.

[Marchegiano]

I'm not so taken by size. From its inception to now weight divisions are really a superfluous thing. An idea devised as a logical means to duck grown into a false equivalency that claims fairness.

There is no period where smaller guys are losing to larger guys en-mass and so a division is created that allows said smaller foes to shine. There is only the repetition of what we have seen at "bridgerweight". The claim smaller guys are having a hard time and so this new division or divisions will allow them an avenue to display their skills. Meanwhile said smaller guys said new division was meant to save from said larger men continue to fight for and win the titles of the larger division.

We could have had reach divisions, speed divisions, ring size divisions, etc. We have weight divisions and pretend weight is far more important than the other two absolutely vital ingredients for the physics of force only because once upon a time a man claimed to be a champion within a weight range and that man never thought to try the same BS with arm length or any other logical claim to fairness.

F=MA

But in boxing M is more important than A. M and dividing by M saves lives. A, unimportant. Fools with a lot of A just get to brag about it, they don't have to fight anyone else with a lot of A at any point in their career if they don't want to. They will have to fight in equal Ms though. Ain't no existence or even a call for any form of measuring, rating, or dividing based on A, but that M though, that's a killer. That M can get you the favor period, this thread is case-in-point. What's the argument against Marciano? All weight? 100% about mass? That's how important M is, someone should phone science and let them know how much more important M is to the sum in the equation M times A = Sum



So, yes, I'd challenge the idea behind weight divisions in the first place. You guys would tell me today a SWW would be slaughtered by a CW if I posted that fantasy fight but abouts the 150s fighting and beating abouts the 200s is not unheard of in the era before scheduled ends.

You guys likewise would treat me like I'm talking crazy if I suggested speed is as deadly as mass using any character as representatives rather than the words. If I suggested Manny has as much chance of killing you with a punch as Wlad you'd laugh at me.


I think I've made my point pretty clear with some nice examples but I want to clarify something. This is not a small/speed vs large/mass argument I mean to bring. I used speed as my main vehicle to highlight how hyper important boxing pretends mass is and how much boxing ignores other aspects of even a simple thing like power let alone the entirety the ballet of physics that is a fight.

No one ever talks about speed in relation to power, even though speed is as important as weight. Conversely weight alone can get you the nod by fans and pundits in would-be matchups that are meant to consider not just the entire ballet of physics but also the characters of the men themselves.


It's bull**** and I'll take a step toward being aggressive with this stance by saying something like "I don't think Marciano makes rounds with SHW" is disappointingly intellectually lazy. Especially coming from smart fellows like Bundana


Weight, speed, trajectory, all equal in delivering force. Am I talking about throwing a punch? Taking a step? Blocking? Slipping? ... Yes, the answer is yes, I am. All of it.

Kinematic chains, I'm literally still the only poster I have ever seen post about them because mass is so important, it matters more than speed, trajectory, or even the third ****ing law of physics for Christ's sake. Get me?




There is a ****-ton more to consider beyond "Him bigger doe" Or even "Him a LOT bigger doe", and Marciano worked very hard for what he had. To just devalue that with intellectually lazy drivel is, well, a disappointment.


It is absolutely conceivable Marciano could use his stamina alone to beat all HWs who came after, and, only equally as intellectually lazy as writing him off based on size alone, and, the only reason anyone is so comfortable being so ****** about size is because no one challenges the notion. It's ******, what you said was ******, all the respect in the world, Bun is not a ****** person at all, but that is a ****** stance and it's about time someone taught you guys just how ****** you sound when you mentally jerkoff over weight.

[mrbig1]

Maybe against men his size and typically those older than him. Rocky had 15 round stamina and IMO could go 20 rounds or more.

But he is really limited the in a sense. He had heart and the mindset to endure much.

These old time heavyweights Rocky's size ( under 210 pounds ) are best talked about in their own time.

No doubt. In his time, he was the man. Heart and will are major factors in winning a fight. In some of his fights he would take a beating that very few could handle. even getting put on the canvas. he would get up and picked up where he left off. 49-0 with 43 ko's about said it all. In my mind Rocky and James J Corbett are underrated. Peace.

[Bundana]

I realize, there's a lot of love for Marciano in places like this. I'm not in love with him... but I do admire his conditioning, heart, power, durability, etc. To make it to 49-0 with his physical limitations, deserves all the admiration in the world.

That being said, I believe he was extremely lucky to come around at a time, when most of the top heavyweights were sub-200 lbs guys. Not Marciano's fault... he beat everybody put in front of him. No one can ask for more than that.

If you believe it's "absolutely conceivable Marciano could use his stamina alone to beat all HWs who came after", you're of course entitled to that opinion. And if you feel, I'm ****** and intellectually lazy for not agreeing with you... well, so be it!

[Dr. Z]

I'm not so taken by size. From its inception to now weight divisions are really a superfluous thing. An idea devised as a logical means to duck grown into a false equivalency that claims fairness.

There is no period where smaller guys are losing to larger guys en-mass and so a division is created that allows said smaller foes to shine. There is only the repetition of what we have seen at "bridgerweight". The claim smaller guys are having a hard time and so this new division or divisions will allow them an avenue to display their skills. Meanwhile said smaller guys said new division was meant to save from said larger men continue to fight for and win the titles of the larger division.

We could have had reach divisions, speed divisions, ring size divisions, etc. We have weight divisions and pretend weight is far more important than the other two absolutely vital ingredients for the physics of force only because once upon a time a man claimed to be a champion within a weight range and that man never thought to try the same BS with arm length or any other logical claim to fairness.

F=MA

But in boxing M is more important than A. M and dividing by M saves lives. A, unimportant. Fools with a lot of A just get to brag about it, they don't have to fight anyone else with a lot of A at any point in their career if they don't want to. They will have to fight in equal Ms though. Ain't no existence or even a call for any form of measuring, rating, or dividing based on A, but that M though, that's a killer. That M can get you the favor period, this thread is case-in-point. What's the argument against Marciano? All weight? 100% about mass? That's how important M is, someone should phone science and let them know how much more important M is to the sum in the equation M times A = Sum



So, yes, I'd challenge the idea behind weight divisions in the first place. You guys would tell me today a SWW would be slaughtered by a CW if I posted that fantasy fight but abouts the 150s fighting and beating abouts the 200s is not unheard of in the era before scheduled ends.

You guys likewise would treat me like I'm talking crazy if I suggested speed is as deadly as mass using any character as representatives rather than the words. If I suggested Manny has as much chance of killing you with a punch as Wlad you'd laugh at me.


I think I've made my point pretty clear with some nice examples but I want to clarify something. This is not a small/speed vs large/mass argument I mean to bring. I used speed as my main vehicle to highlight how hyper important boxing pretends mass is and how much boxing ignores other aspects of even a simple thing like power let alone the entirety the ballet of physics that is a fight.

No one ever talks about speed in relation to power, even though speed is as important as weight. Conversely weight alone can get you the nod by fans and pundits in would-be matchups that are meant to consider not just the entire ballet of physics but also the characters of the men themselves.


It's bull**** and I'll take a step toward being aggressive with this stance by saying something like "I don't think Marciano makes rounds with SHW" is disappointingly intellectually lazy. Especially coming from smart fellows like Bundana


Weight, speed, trajectory, all equal in delivering force. Am I talking about throwing a punch? Taking a step? Blocking? Slipping? ... Yes, the answer is yes, I am. All of it.

Kinematic chains, I'm literally still the only poster I have ever seen post about them because mass is so important, it matters more than speed, trajectory, or even the third ****ing law of physics for Christ's sake. Get me?




There is a ****-ton more to consider beyond "Him bigger doe" Or even "Him a LOT bigger doe", and Marciano worked very hard for what he had. To just devalue that with intellectually lazy drivel is, well, a disappointment.


It is absolutely conceivable Marciano could use his stamina alone to beat all HWs who came after, and, only equally as intellectually lazy as writing him off based on size alone, and, the only reason anyone is so comfortable being so ****** about size is because no one challenges the notion. It's ******, what you said was ******, all the respect in the world, Bun is not a ****** person at all, but that is a ****** stance and it's about time someone taught you guys just how ****** you sound when you mentally jerkoff over weight.

It's absolutely conceivable that Rocky, a man 187 pounds, has the chin and size to beat much bigger men ( who hit a lot harder than Moore And Walcott, his best punchers faced ) because he never did. He would out box them for sure! The Guys Wlad's, Lewis and Vitali's size are dead meat say the Marciano fanboys. Rocky would knock them out. Never-mind the fact that it took Rocky on average 9 rounds to beat the small , much older men in his title fights.

This is an epic mis-match. Equally a mis-mismatch is getting through to these Marciano fan boy's

I must ask you, where are these men who are fighting at the weight of light heavyweight today in the modern heavyweight division? I tell you they are missing out and all of the Saudi oil money

I will end with your reasoning. In the movies Rocky would surely knock them all out.

[QueensburyRules]

Those 15th round furious assaults he would dish out on someone he was trying to knock out. Thats not an effort of someone tired trying really hard: no itâs someone with 20 more rounds in the tank wasting as much fuel as possible trying to destroy someone.

if fights were long enough Marciano beats everyone

- - If you was any smarter, you would figure out how not to drool in public...

[Marchegiano]

I realize, there's a lot of love for Marciano in places like this. I'm not in love with him... but I do admire his conditioning, heart, power, durability, etc. To make it to 49-0 with his physical limitations, deserves all the admiration in the world.

That being said, I believe he was extremely lucky to come around at a time, when most of the top heavyweights were sub-200 lbs guys. Not Marciano's fault... he beat everybody put in front of him. No one can ask for more than that.

If you believe it's "absolutely conceivable Marciano could use his stamina alone to beat all HWs who came after", you're of course entitled to that opinion. And if you feel, I'm ****** and intellectually lazy for not agreeing with you... well, so be it!

It's absolutely conceivable that Rocky, a man 187 pounds, has the chin and size to beat much bigger men ( who hit a lot harder than Moore And Walcott, his best punchers faced ) because he never did. He would out box them for sure! The Guys Wlad's, Lewis and Vitali's size are dead meat say the Marciano fanboys. Rocky would knock them out. Never-mind the fact that it took Rocky on average 9 rounds to beat the small , much older men in his title fights.

This is an epic mis-match. Equally a mis-mismatch is getting through to these Marciano fan boy's

I must ask you, where are these men who are fighting at the weight of light heavyweight today in the modern heavyweight division? I tell you they are missing out and all of the Saudi oil money

I will end with your reasoning. In the movies Rocky would surely knock them all out.

I noticed the absolute swerve of the science, which is extremely basic, by both of you. I feel like I made it very clear the vehicles I used.

What I am curious about is why mention one if you have no intention of dealing with the other? It seems rather a lot similar to my first complaint; intellectually lazy, and I am unsure what sort of conversation it is either of you think I am asking you to have.

To dumb this all down and I think make it easier to understand: Bunny, I literally said " Bun is not a ****** person at all" so why am I reading "And if you feel, I'm ****** and intellectually lazy for not agreeing with you... well, so be it!" as a response? If I already said I don't think you're ****** why is their any if you think I'm ****** at all? It's like you read half the sentence every sentence.

Bringing it back to a more academic discussion again: I'm not real sure what I am supposed to respond to except to say to both Bundana and Dr. Z you have to respond to at least a completed point for me to have a response that makes sense to the scope of the conversation.

I can follow along and say my opinions as well but I am not asking you for your opinion. It isn't my opinion speed is just as important as mass when calculating force. I am asking you why it's so acceptable in boxing to pretend like mass is the most important thing in boxing.

I pointed to history, I pointed to science, I got back an opinion from Z and a statement that can be summed up with if you don't like my opinion oh well from Bundana.


You can both do better. If you don't care to have this conversation just say that. Don't give me more lazy bull. I'll slap you with my young people's lingo I'm kidding but for real if I thought Z was too ****** to jump in I'd tell him and if I thought Bundana was too ****** to give a thoughtful response I wouldn't have asked him to.