The reason Joe Louis should be studied above all fighters

[QueensburyRules]

Its not long term though, its frame by frame prediction. And it will and already is. If can def get a read on rythms and timing etc intangibles with data. Just like a human brain can predict and react.

- - Be like a monkey aping a behavior. Means nothing in a garbage in, garbage out IT world.

[Bundana]

Its not long term though, its frame by frame prediction. And it will and already is. If can def get a read on rythms and timing etc intangibles with data. Just like a human brain can predict and react.

So can we agree, that an AI machine can't really predict how a boxing match will turn out? Not 15 sec into the future, not 10 sec, not 5 sec... in fact, it can't predict the next movements of the fighters any better than you and I!

[Slugfester]

If AI scientists were able to program a physical and emotional duplicate of, say Dempsey, that still would not be enough IMO to get accurate results very far ahead. What about the rest of Dempsey's life that shaped him? Everyday of his life has to be programmed in too. We will never have that information. And it would matter very little if we did.

In weather predicting there came to be a tool enabling us to defy chaos theory and the barrier of time, but just a little bit. Satellites were the big tool, but many others. Meteorologists at least can predict better than yesteryear. They see storms forming far away and have more sample points. Those storms do not always come as predicted.

Remember people bitching about the inaccuracies of weather predictions? It was a familiar complaint. Maybe you are too young. I have not heard that complaint in a long time

I don't know what boxing's surprise tool might be, or if it can ever be, but it is great to think about.

[kara]

If AI scientists were able to program a physical and emotional duplicate of, say Dempsey, that still would not be enough IMO to get accurate results very far ahead. What about the rest of Dempsey's life that shaped him? Everyday of his life has to be programmed in too. We will never have that information. And it would matter very little if we did.

In weather predicting there came to be a tool enabling us to defy chaos theory and the barrier of time, but just a little bit. Satellites were the big tool, but many others. Meteorologists at least can predict better than yesteryear. They see storms forming far away and have more sample points. Those storms do not always come as predicted.

Remember people bitching about the inaccuracies of weather predictions? It was a familiar complaint. Maybe you are too young. I have not heard that complaint in a long time

I don't know what boxing's surprise tool might be, or if it can ever be, but it is great to think about.

People have been trying to make a new Mayweather since he retired. Every guy they claim is the new FM - Shakur, Tank, Haney, etc.

[them_apples]

So can we agree, that an AI machine can't really predict how a boxing match will turn out? Not 15 sec into the future, not 10 sec, not 5 sec... in fact, it can't predict the next movements of the fighters any better than you and I!

if your phone can predict what you are thinking based on your eye readings and hand temperature, I wouldn’t write off AI predicting the movements of old film. To an AI machine the video footage is plenty of data

[them_apples]

Data is a strange anomaly. For example, when you look at things on your phone, your phone logs the data of your eyes, hand temp, scroll speed, sound and views the patterns.

like the early case of predicting a womans pregnancy via her shopping habits. She didn’t even know she was pregnant. By buying a toothbrush, a rug and some bubblegum on sunday at 3 oclock - after previously only purchasing gum and water at 5 oclock. It lit up a graph that showed she was very likely to be pregnant. Scary stuff.

[them_apples]

If AI scientists were able to program a physical and emotional duplicate of, say Dempsey, that still would not be enough IMO to get accurate results very far ahead. What about the rest of Dempsey's life that shaped him? Everyday of his life has to be programmed in too. We will never have that information. And it would matter very little if we did.

In weather predicting there came to be a tool enabling us to defy chaos theory and the barrier of time, but just a little bit. Satellites were the big tool, but many others. Meteorologists at least can predict better than yesteryear. They see storms forming far away and have more sample points. Those storms do not always come as predicted.

Remember people bitching about the inaccuracies of weather predictions? It was a familiar complaint. Maybe you are too young. I have not heard that complaint in a long time

I don't know what boxing's surprise tool might be, or if it can ever be, but it is great to think about.

this is primitive Ai. Ai is advancing drastically at an insane pace. Old versions of AI are caveman in comparison.

[Bundana]

if your phone can predict what you are thinking based on your eye readings and hand temperature, I wouldn�t write off AI predicting the movements of old film. To an AI machine the video footage is plenty of data

No matter how advanced an AI machine we get in the future, there's no way it will ever be able to predict what will happen in a fight - not even over a very short period of time (like, for example, 15 sec)! All the fight footage from the last 100+ years will be of no help! I mean, how could it possibly be? How can what happened in a fight years ago, have anything to do with the fight we're watching right now? Of course it can't!

Now it stands to reason, that AI in the future likely will be able to give us (as already mentioned) much more accurate weather forecasts, on the short term - and probably also be able to come up with a fairly accurate prognosis, concerning long term climate change. Can it tell if a woman is pregnant, based on her recent shopping profile? Sure, I'll buy that. And will it, based on my internet surfing profile, be able to guess, what **** movie I want to watch next? Maybe - I wouldn't rule that out!

But predicting what is going to happen in a fight, is something very different! How will AI be able to predict, how both boxers will go about it in the next 15 sec (or whatever period of time we want to examine) - let alone be able to predict an injury, a lucky punch, the "fan man", the ear biting incident, the "no mas", a DQ from a low blow, a boxer who forfeits the fight when he ducks through the ropes and runs for the bathroom, because he can no longer hold it in(!), etc. etc.? It's simply not possible, and never will be!

[them_apples]

No matter how advanced an AI machine we get in the future, there's no way it will ever be able to predict what will happen in a fight - not even over a very short period of time (like, for example, 15 sec)! All the fight footage from the last 100+ years will be of no help! I mean, how could it possibly be? How can what happened in a fight years ago, have anything to do with the fight we're watching right now? Of course it can't!

Now it stands to reason, that AI in the future likely will be able to give us (as already mentioned) much more accurate weather forecasts, on the short term - and probably also be able to come up with a fairly accurate prognosis, concerning long term climate change. Can it tell if a woman is pregnant, based on her recent shopping profile? Sure, I'll buy that. And will it, based on my internet surfing profile, be able to guess, what **** movie I want to watch next? Maybe - I wouldn't rule that out!

But predicting what is going to happen in a fight, is something very different! How will AI be able to predict, how both boxers will go about it in the next 15 sec (or whatever period of time we want to examine) - let alone be able to predict an injury, a lucky punch, the "fan man", the ear biting incident, the "no mas", a DQ from a low blow, a boxer who forfeits the fight when he ducks through the ropes and runs for the bathroom, because he can no longer hold it in(!), etc. etc.? It's simply not possible, and never will be!

Well, you are wrong. I don’t know what to say. It pisses me off too - how small and useless we are becoming. I think the real reason people argue about it is because they don’t want to believe it.

you have an odd way of perceiving things though. It only has to predict from frame 1-2-3 the frames missing inbetween. To make it go from 16 fps to 60 fps but REAL frames, that describe the most minor movements. That way we get a real visual description.

Joe Louis looks stiff in old film, because there aren’t enough frames to describe very subtle movements. He does a lot of small feints and subtleties. Everyone does actually. Thats why old films they look so stiff, not enough real frames. Even the breathing and contracting will adjust the movement by small factors contributing to the realism. The snappyness of punches etc, how the the body is described when a blow is landed etc

I don’t know how we got to “predicting what someone will do an hour from now” type thinking. We are talking about AI upscaling footage

[Bundana]

Well, you are wrong. I don�¢����t know what to say. It pisses me off too - how small and useless we are becoming. I think the real reason people argue about it is because they don�¢����t want to believe it.

you have an odd way of perceiving things though. It only has to predict from frame 1-2-3 the frames missing inbetween. To make it go from 16 fps to 60 fps but REAL frames, that describe the most minor movements. That way we get a real visual description.

Joe Louis looks stiff in old film, because there aren�t enough frames to describe very subtle movements. He does a lot of small feints and subtleties. Everyone does actually. Thats why old films they look so stiff, not enough real frames. Even the breathing and contracting will adjust the movement by small factors contributing to the realism. The snappyness of punches etc, how the the body is described when a blow is landed etc

I don�t know how we got to �predicting what someone will do an hour from now� type thinking. We are talking about AI upscaling footage

So if we're only talking about AI filling out single frames, to make an old, jerky film look more "smooth" - yes, that sounds reasonable.

In this thread I have several times asked if you can agree, that no AI machine of the future will be able to predict, what is going to happen in a fight 15, 10 or even just 5 sec down the line - and each time you have refused to answer, but have instead come up with some weird stuff about how all the available fight footage throughout history will help AI to form an opinion! But I take it, you now finally agree, that it's not really possible for AI to look into the future (of a fight) for any length of time - right?