Did Monzon retire to avoid Hagler?

[Ivich]

Monzon was in fact knocked down by Fernandez I told the board and or resident village idiot has finally confirmed it.

We have confirmed Fernandez knocked Monzon down in their first fight on September 3rd 1966.
I actively went looking for the answer.
We have also confirmed that they never met for a fight inJanuary1966!
Which brings us to your made up story about reading the result of this fictitious fight in an Argentinian newspaper!
YOU DIDN'T!
YOU MADE THAT UP TO COUNTER THE FACT THAT BOX REC,CYBERZONE ,AND THE RING RECORD BOOK HAVE NO RECORD OF THAT FIGHT EVER TAKING PLACE!
I'M CONTENT TO HAVE ONCE AGAIN EXPOSED YOU AS THE SERIAL LIAR THAT YOU ARE!

[Ivich]

Z has prevailed, sending his man to the hospital with a concussion. Now he must not stand over a vanquished opponent jeering. Good job. The laurel wreath belongs to you.

Nope the issue was never about whether Fernandez knocked Monzon down,I pointed out at the start that I wouldn't be surprised if he did because he was a big puncher.

The issue was about a mythical fight that never happened.

,Z stated they fought for the South American Light middleweight title in January 1966.He also said if Fernandez had been taller he might have knocked Monzon out but ,because he wasn't and he was past his best he was unable to do it.
1.They did not fight in January.
2,When they did have their first fight, in September it was for the Middleweight Argentinian title held by Fernandez,not the Light Middleweight one.
3.It was also for the Argentinian title not the South American one.
4.No sports page of national newspaper is going to get the date and the weight division wrong about a national boxing title,which means he was lying.
I think he misread the information on Box Rec ,getting it mixed up with Fernandez' January1966, that would be understandable and of no consequence.
It became important when he refused to admit he had made a mistake and invented a pack of lies about reading it in an Argentinian paper saying just because it isn't in Box Rec or Wikipedia [or CBZ or The Ring Record Book or Boxing News,]doesn't mean it didn't happen.
In short once he had begun to lie he had to continue with it.
He later reversed himself and said the fight happened in September without referring to his earlier statement or the fact that he got ,not only the weight division wrong, but the nationality of the title they fought for.

5,There is no evidence that Fernandez had Monzon in real trouble in that fight or that if he had been taller he might have stopped him, Monzon got up and won a unanimous decision.

6. As to Fernandez being over the hill ,he was 30 years old.
7. Whether Fernandez knocked Monzon down was never the issue for me .

I'm the one who went and found the confirmation that he did and posted it here. I also posted that Felipe Cambeiro knocked him down 3 times and beat him over 8 rds in 1964.

8.The issue is him concocting a tissue of lies after being asked to provide the evidence to support his claims.
9.If you think that is some kind of victory ,then you would probably agree with him ,when ,after betting me that the Ruhlin and Fitzsimmons fight was filmed,it wasn't he said he had won the bet because after the camera's failed to work.
A re-enactment was made some time later,and Z claimed that counted as the fight being filmed .

You are entitled to your opinion , and I'm entitled to dismiss it.
THE LYING WREATH BELONGS TO HIM.

[Ivich]

Z has prevailed, sending his man to the hospital with a concussion. Now he must not stand over a vanquished opponent jeering. Good job. The laurel wreath belongs to you.

In response to my request for information about their first fight on another forum I have a couple of minutes ago received this.DR Z who claims to read Spanish will no doubt be able to translate it for us!

Monzón vs Fernández, I, comentario de la época - BoxRec.

And this.
Hemeroteca Digital - Diarios Históricos en Internet - Prov. Santa Fé - República Argentina (santafe.gov.ar)

1. Not wanting to cast doubt on the accuracy of the Sports Illustrated report that has been posted here, but I think they have it wrong.
   
   I managed to track down a post on Boxrec, which had been submitted in Spanish and makes reference to Monzón vs Fernández, I...
   
   https://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91139
   
   Interestingly, the theme of the thread centers on the type of bias Monzon faced in some of the press at this still relatively early stage of his career. At the same time, this short thread makes mention of the knockdown that Monzon scores against Fenandez. There is no suggestion that Monzon is knocked down in return, which seems strange given the concern of the mystery author is one of doubt about the result.
   
   However, rather frustratingly, the article transcribed in the second post does not carry a source citation.
   
   Nonetheless, it seemed a credible enough clue to follow up on and to see if I could find a published press article of the time to corroborate the post.
   
   In doing so, I was able to find the following:
   
   http://www.santafe.gov.ar/hemeroteca.../28305/?page=5
   
   EL LITORAL
   Sunday 4th of September, 1966,
   
   'CARLOS MONZÓN ES CAMPEON ARGENTINO',
   
   This archived article is difficult to navigate but the first thing that caught my attention was the caption under the photographs:
   
   "La airosa estampa de Carlos Monzón, flamante campeón argentino de pe so mediano, después de derrotar anoche en el Luna Park a Jorge Fernández des y a quien en el cuarto round envió a la lona por cinco segundos. En la nota gráfica pueden observarse dos actitudes características del primer campeón profesional de box que posee Santa Fe"
   
   
   Roughly translated (and apologies in advance to any native or fluent Spanish speakers in the audience):
   
   "The gallant figure of Carlos Monzón, the brand-new Argentine middleweight champion, after defeating Jorge Fernández last night at Luna Park, whom he sent to the canvas for five seconds in the fourth round. In the graphic note, two characteristic attitudes of the first professional boxing champion that Santa Fe has produced can be observed."
   
   
   The rest of the article is going to take some time to extract from, transcribe and translate. But I can confirm that the main body of the article reiterates the above; that Monzon scored a knockdown in the 4th round.
2. No mention of Fernandez knocking Monzon down!
   
   Your congratulations seem to be rather premature!
   
   Further to the original question.Here is a comment from a guy who knows rather more about Monzon than most.
   
   Some Yo Ho once posted to me that Felipe Cambiero said Hi in reference to his bout with Carlos Monzon. King Carlos lost only 3 fights in his whole career, he lost to Felipe Cambiero, Antonio Augilar, and Alberto Massi, all three were losses on points in 1964. Monzon defeated all three victors against Monzon in rematches, went on a 82 bout unbeaten streak dating back to Oct 9 1964 until his retirement as champion in August 1977 after 14 successful title defenses. Monzon's record was 89-3-9, 61 KO's. Carlos Monzon ducked no one in his division.

[Dr. Z]

We have confirmed Fernandez knocked Monzon down in their first fight on September 3rd 1966.

Nice of you to catch up to last week. Stop obsessing over things, it is not healthy, Don't believe me? Ask you shrink.


Yes, the 5'7" limited reach former welter wight knocked Monzon down. Get over it. Similarly the other wife beater Jack Johnson, a heavy weight was knocked down by a crude middleweight in Kechel, who was also short with a limited reach. Don't you watch boxing?

Keep on lying...

[Ivich]

Nice of you to catch up to last week. Stop obsessing over things, it is not healthy, Don't believe me? Ask you shrink.


Yes, the 5'7" limited reach former welter wight knocked Monzon down. Get over it. Similarly the other wife beater Jack Johnson, a heavy weight was knocked down by a crude middleweight in Kechel, who was also short with a limited reach. Don't you watch boxing?

Keep on lying...

Going to translate the Spanish links I posted?

Prove you are right by translating the links I posted!

Be prepared I'm awaiting he rest of the translation from a friend!

FYI A friend is someone who likes you!

Me obsessed ? WTF has Jack Johnson to do with this thread!
wight? ,kechel ? You read Spanish but not English!

I watched Warrington v Wood this morning.

[Dr. Z]

@ Ivich, aka Tony, Mcvey, and Tonto62,

You are truly " pig " sick. Your words were probably a Freudian slip. You don't think I can translate? One of your many falsehoods.

Why is Jack Johnson in this thread? He might be a wife beater who was knocked down by a lower weight fighter. What do you think? Are the any similarities? I don't know about you but I can't name any other fighter who had that happen to them who were confirmed wife beaters and law breakers.

Much like Monzon you defend this criminal, and wife beater. Why? Why are do you do this? Asking you again?

The same reason you admitted giving money to a ********* org. Yes, that happened too.

I report the truth. You don't like it when I do.

Really you waste my time. Your goal is to close yet another thread.

I see you have created this thread elsewhere and they told you the same thing..

[Ivich]

@ Ivich, aka Tony, Mcvey, and Tonto62,

You are truly " pig " sick. Your words were probably a Freudian slip. You don't think I can translate? One of your many falsehoods.

Why is Jack Johnson in this thread? He might be a wife beater who was knocked down by a lower weight fighter. What do you think? Are the any similarities? I don't know about you but I can't name any other fighter who had that happen to them who were confirmed wife beaters and law breakers.

Much like Monzon you defend this criminal, and wife beater. Why? Why are do you do this? Asking you again?

The same reason you admitted giving money to a ********* org. Yes, that happened too.

I report the truth. You don't like it when I do.

Really you waste my time. Your goal is to close yet another thread.

I see you have created this thread elsewhere and they told you the same thing..

You really do have a mental problem.

[Slugfester]

No one gave a shit about the date of a fight. The only matter of import was whether Fernandez ever knocked Monzon down. Either Sports Illustrated or Boxrec is wrong. It seems to me if Ivich actually still believed himself, he would write to Boxrec to see how they respond, instead of demanding a pointless translation that one could get in a jiffy from Google Translate.

I would be interested in the identification of the ********* group Ivich is supposed to have donated to.

[Dr. Z]

No one gave a shit about the date of a fight. The only matter of import was whether Fernandez ever knocked Monzon down. Either Sports Illustrated or Boxrec is wrong. It seems to me if Ivich actually still believed himself, he would write to Boxrec to see how they respond, instead of demanding a pointless translation that one could get in a jiffy from Google Translate.

I would be interested in the identification of the ********* group Ivich is supposed to have donated to.

Box rec does not report everything and is constantly updating itself. Box rec did not exist in the 1960s, Sports Illustrated who used to have decent boxing coverage did. If you wish to help box rec updated their records you can email them.

You have to ask him which ********* group he gave to, all I will say is that it was definitely considered a ********* group by the USA government. The man has admitted belonging to a cult and is a freemason dressing up funny with numerous symbols some of which represent you know who. He might give you the old one eye greeting and secret handshake.

[Ivich]

No one gave a shit about the date of a fight. The only matter of import was whether Fernandez ever knocked Monzon down. Either Sports Illustrated or Boxrec is wrong. It seems to me if Ivich actually still believed himself, he would write to Boxrec to see how they respond, instead of demanding a pointless translation that one could get in a jiffy from Google Translate.

I would be interested in the identification of the ********* group Ivich is supposed to have donated to.

You might not have given a **** about the date but I did, and I said so ,I also said I wouldn't be surprised if Fernandez knocked Monzon down,
I'm the Fella that went and found the links and posted them here!
All I'm after is the truth and past experience has taught me not to expect it from Dr Z

If you don't care about this why are you so active in commenting on it?
If a translation gives us the truth how is it pointless?
If as he claims ,Z reads Spanish why won't he translate the links I provided,?
Surely he would be anxious to prove his point wouldnt he?
Both SI and Box Rec have the date correct,what is up for debate is whether SI has it right that Fernandez knocked Monzon down,we KNOW Monzon knocked him down.Thanks for the Google tip I'll try it.

The ********* group Z says I donated to was the ANC when Nelson Mandela was its leader and I am proud to have done so.When Mandela died I discontinued my association with them. Mandela was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in1993,and the Lenin Peace Prize in 1990 ,
I was against Apartheid then and I am against it now.

Plenty of Americans financially contributed to the IRA , including buying weapons for them.

Has he not mentioned the other group I belong to ?
A group which he says are devil worshippers and *****philes.Its called Freemasonry.
Seventeen of your Presidents belonged to it,several of your Founding Fathers,and quite a few boxers such as;
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Ray Robinson