The Long Count (Aftermath)

[DooGee#33]

I'm not sure where it says a fighter has to get up in 10 seconds. As far as I know that was never a rule. It is the referee's 10 count. A human being isn't going to count precisely.

Regarding a 3rd Match it certainly would have sold out. Another huge gate.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm not sure where it says a fighter has to get up in 10 seconds. As far as I know that was never a rule. It is the referee's 10 count. A human being isn't going to count precisely.

Regarding a 3rd Match it certainly would have sold out. Another huge gate.

MQB RULES

4. If either man falls through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, 10 seconds to be allowed him to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner, and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the 10 seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his award in favour of the other man.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm not sure where it says a fighter has to get up in 10 seconds. As far as I know that was never a rule. It is the referee's 10 count. A human being isn't going to count precisely.

Regarding a 3rd Match it certainly would have sold out. Another huge gate.

- - The count represents a second. If the ref can't count to 10 professionally, he should be in boxing, not that the officials won't use him anyway.

When Walcott had finally rassled Ali to the neutral corner he started the count on Lison only to be interrupted by Nat. Nat was with the timekeeper and told Walcott 10 secs from the KD had expired a long time ago, so when Walcott turns to go stop the fight, Liston is already up and fighting Ali when Joe waves it off...FRAUD!!!

By rules Ali shoulda been DQed immediately for fighting with Walcott...only in boxing, folks...!!!

[DooGee#33]

- - The count represents a second. If the ref can't count to 10 professionally, he should be in boxing, not that the officials won't use him anyway.

When Walcott had finally rassled Ali to the neutral corner he started the count on Lison only to be interrupted by Nat. Nat was with the timekeeper and told Walcott 10 secs from the KD had expired a long time ago, so when Walcott turns to go stop the fight, Liston is already up and fighting Ali when Joe waves it off...FRAUD!!!

By rules Ali shoulda been DQed immediately for fighting with Walcott...only in boxing, folks...!!!

No, if it was meant to be exactly 10 seconds they would have just used a timer or clock rather than have a human being count. It is the referee's 10 count. Sometimes a referee will chase a fighter to a neutral corner before starting his count. 10 seconds isn't really a rule.

[QueensburyRules]

No, if it was meant to be exactly 10 seconds they would have just used a timer or clock rather than have a human being count. It is the referee's 10 count. Sometimes a referee will chase a fighter to a neutral corner before starting his count. 10 seconds isn't really a rule.

- - Hence the Dempsey long count. When Tunney KDed Dempsey, ref started the count immediately with Tunney still in place, a clear bias or brain fart, take your pick.

Like I said, 10 count represents 10 sec, that's inviable. There is room for 10% margin of error, but that's it. When Big George arose vs Ali, Clayton was on the 9 count and called it off. He was old man worn out by Ali clinches and likely sensed the monsoon downpour a few minutes later. Better than him passing out in the ring.

How many x the favorite get a slow count and the lessor get a fast count?

Infinitely umpteen x, hence the dirty sport of boxing.

[Willie Pep 229]

No, if it was meant to be exactly 10 seconds they would have just used a timer or clock rather than have a human being count. It is the referee's 10 count. Sometimes a referee will chase a fighter to a neutral corner before starting his count. 10 seconds isn't really a rule.

When they created MQB safety rules they didn't have electric clocks avaiable - circa 1869.

The 10 second rule was created to stop fighters from suffering multiple concessions in one night. (See LPR Rules on knock downs for better understanding.)

The downed fighter had to rise to his feet without assistance within ten seconds. The means this was applied was dictated by the absence of technology in a society not yet dependent on technology.

They wrote down "ten seconds" and then expected the refree to count off those "seconds."

[DooGee#33]

When they created MQB safety rules they didn't have electric clocks avaiable - circa 1869.

The 10 second rule was created to stop fighters from suffering multiple concessions in one night. (See LPR Rules on knock downs for better understanding.)

The downed fighter had to rise to his feet without assistance within ten seconds. The means this was applied was dictated by the absence of technology in a society not yet dependent on technology.

They wrote down "ten seconds" and then expected the refree to count off those "seconds."

No human is going to count exactly 10 seconds in the heat of the moment. That's not realistic. Might 12 seconds, might be 9 seconds.

[Willie Pep 229]

No human is going to count exactly 10 seconds in the heat of the moment. That's not realistic. Might 12 seconds, might be 9 seconds.

Yes very true.

What I was addressing was whether they were thinking ten seconds or a ten count.

They were thinking ten seconds they just didn't have the means to include a clock (at first).

As soon as the technology for a "clocked" ten seconds became avaiable they included a time keeper (with a hammer ****ing on the apron) to clue the referee.

In practice this has caused multiple problems.

Walcott 'counted out' Liston without ever giving him a count.

Dave Barry didn't treat the two separate KDs consistently in the imfamous 'long count.'

The time keepers count was up to five when Barry re-approached Tunney but chose to ignore the time keeper and started at "one."

Foreman (Ali) and Walcott (Marciano II) both received 'quick' counts.

In Douglas-Tyson it took the refree 13 seconds in his count, but both KDs received the same count. Unlike Dave Barry, the Douglas-Tyson referee was consistent.

Point is: It was always meant to be ten seconds as applied by a referee's count. But that has not proved realistic over the 120 years of boxing history.

So as a compromise the ten second event was made avaiable to the referee, (by a time keeper's hammer) but it has been left to the referee to adjust the count when he deems it necessary.

This is the compromise we have accepted, but it was always thought of as ten seconds, all the way back to the moment they created the rule.

Thus referees should seek (as best they can) to meet that ten second expectation, but it is mandatory, that regardless of their counts' length, it must be applied consistently to all KDs.

But it was always meant to be ten seconds, theory wise. 10 seconds was the orignial goal.

[kara]

Yes very true.

What I was addressing was whether they were thinking ten seconds or a ten count.

They were thinking ten seconds they just didn't have the means to include a clock (at first).

As soon as the technology for a "clocked" ten seconds became avaiable they included a time keeper (with a hammer ****ing on the apron) to clue the referee.

In practice this has caused multiple problems.

Walcott 'counted out' Liston without ever giving him a count.

Dave Barry didn't treat the two separate KDs consistently in the imfamous 'long count.'

The time keepers count was up to five when Barry re-approached Tunney but chose to ignore the time keeper and started at "one."

Foreman (Ali) and Walcott (Marciano II) both received 'quick' counts.

In Douglas-Tyson it took the refree 13 seconds in his count, but both KDs received the same count. Unlike Dave Barry, the Douglas-Tyson referee was consistent.

Point is: It was always meant to be ten seconds as applied by a referee's count. But that has not proved realistic over the 120 years of boxing history.

So as a compromise the ten second event was made avaiable to the referee, (by a time keeper's hammer) but it has been left to the referee to adjust the count when he deems it necessary.

This is the compromise we have accepted, but it was always thought of as ten seconds, all the way back to the moment they created the rule.

Thus referees should seek (as best they can) to meet that ten second expectation, but it is mandatory, that regardless of their counts' length, it must be applied consistently to all KDs.

But it was always meant to be ten seconds, theory wise. 10 seconds was the orignial goal.

A lot of people think a count of 10 is 10 seconds, but they are two different things.

[QueensburyRules]

When they created MQB safety rules they didn't have electric clocks avaiable - circa 1869.

The 10 second rule was created to stop fighters from suffering multiple concessions in one night. (See LPR Rules on knock downs for better understanding.)

The downed fighter had to rise to his feet without assistance within ten seconds. The means this was applied was dictated by the absence of technology in a society not yet dependent on technology.

They wrote down "ten seconds" and then expected the refree to count off those "seconds."

- - They had accurate winding watches then, esp time keepers. Hence rules measured in minutes and seconds.