The Holy Grail of Boxing Film : Greb-Tunney I

[Willie Pep 229]

According to one poster on the forum, we have a single very good source that the film exists.

A collector (whose name I can't remember**) claims he once saw a Copy Right Application for the film with a couple of frames attached to it.

That's a nice piece of emperical proof to make the search continue.

So I was thinking . . . We can't find it but maybe we can muster a second conformation of its existence.

Here's how: If Rickard put out the cash to film and copy right the fight he must of shown it.

Even with the Sims Law in effect the fight took place in MSG and so was economically viable (legal) in New York.

Rickard presented Dempsey-Firpo all over the City with no interference.

So there must have been some NY presentations of the film.

What if we search, not instead the sporting news as usual, but the entertainment section, looking for an advert?

I am not sure if newspapers in the early 1920s even had movie times listed, but maybe they did.

What is also possible is that these adverts would be uploaded onto the Internet as pics and not text. Thus the names Tunney or Greb wouldn't appear in a Google search for that page.

We would have to physically peruse the entertainment section and see if there are any adverts for the film. Probably in small print at the bottom, as an also featured.

I am not suggesting anyone go particularly looking (I think I will) but I would suggest that anyone finds themselves in a 1922 newspaper, late May through July, in the New York area, try sliding to the entertainment section and take a look.

It's a small window but I think it's worth a look-see.


** Someone on this forum posted the information a few months ago. Can you repost that collector's name?

[billeau2]

How many times has some event that had previously been considered non existent turned up? I truly do not know, so this is not a leading questin Pep. I am an optimist. I actually do think one day some disclosure shackled individuals might produce, in a proverbial attic, photos taken of a non human entity. I think it is possible.

But the way I would ascertain such a thing... I would want to know about who was at any event we speak of... whether a Greb fight, or in Rosewell NM. Literally go from that event and see if there is a link. Not easy to do.

[QueensburyRules]

- - We know that Robby/Pep ama fight was filmed as well as their elderly exhibition, so hope springs eternal.

[kara]

I have no doubt Pep will find this piece of gold.

[Dr. Z]

According to one poster on the forum, we have a single very good source that the film exists.

A collector (whose name I can't remember**) claims he once saw a Copy Right Application for the film with a couple of frames attached to it.

That's a nice piece of emperical proof to make the search continue.

So I was thinking . . . We can't find it but maybe we can muster a second conformation of its existence.

Here's how: If Rickard put out the cash to film and copy right the fight he must of shown it.

Even with the Sims Law in effect the fight took place in MSG and so was economically viable (legal) in New York.

Rickard presented Dempsey-Firpo all over the City with no interference.

So there must have been some NY presentations of the film.

What if we search, not instead the sporting news as usual, but the entertainment section, looking for an advert?

I am not sure if newspapers in the early 1920s even had movie times listed, but maybe they did.

What is also possible is that these adverts would be uploaded onto the Internet as pics and not text. Thus the names Tunney or Greb wouldn't appear in a Google search for that page.

We would have to physically peruse the entertainment section and see if there are any adverts for the film. Probably in small print at the bottom, as an also featured.

I am not suggesting anyone go particularly looking (I think I will) but I would suggest that anyone finds themselves in a 1922 newspaper, late May through July, in the New York area, try sliding to the entertainment section and take a look.

It's a small window but I think it's worth a look-see.


** Someone on this forum posted the information a few months ago. Can you repost that collector's name?

If you don't mind me asking, which poster said this?

[BattlingNelson]

If you don't mind me asking, which poster said this?

Probably a few. I remember one and he was close to being a pathological liar and I think he ended up being banned.

[Willie Pep 229]

If you don't mind me asking, which poster said this?

I don't know! I just remember reading it.

[Willie Pep 229]

If you don't mind me asking, which poster said this?

OK I found this and I THINK it is the source of the claim the unknown poster originally made.

From The Los Angeles Times, May 19th 1990

Jim Jacobs Speaking:

"I have three frames of the first Greb-Gene Tunney fight that I found stapled to a copyright application for the film,” he said in 1986. . . .

The guy who filmed the 1922 Greb-Tunney fight was George Dawson. I even know what hotel he stayed at the night before the fight. I’ve interviewed his heirs. None of them know anything about the film.”

Now once again here is the rub:

This is a secondary voice speaking on behalf of a dead man and quoting him.

It's the story we want to believe but I hate it when someone quotes a deadman. The deadman can't step up and say "I didn't say exactly that."

There is too much opportunity for twisted logics and cherry picking to occur that all secondary sources have bo be confirmed, and then confirmed again.

Anyway, I have convinced myself that if Rickard paid, and Dawson filmed it, then they had to show it somewhere. Which means there must be some form of advertising to confirm its existence.

Just seems logical to me. I say the conformation lies somewhere in a damn movie time table circa summer 1922.