Who was the greater - Manny Pacquiao or Pernell Whitaker?

[markusmod]

Pacquiao for me.

[travestyny]

Why do you care whom I respect Trav. ?

Do you really think I need an alt to post to you?

You are so ****ing sensitive. Don't agree with your every dream about your idol and suddenly you abandon the topic for personal attacks. Try being a man for once in your life.

[travestyny]

READ TO THE END

I am living with it right now with you.

I don't answer pointless trap questions. If you are not him too, then you both suffer from the same preversed malady.

You scan the posts looking for opportunities to level trap questions. It's not mere trolling, it's an obsessive need you have to feel right about yourself by making others look wrong.

You get off on trying to make other posters look wrong.

It's sort of a mental illness you or maybe both you suffer with, (but I think there is only of you.)

But with all that said I will answer you. I pulled against Ali in every fight (save one) he ever had, and it is in fact, because of his disrespect.

I did pull for him against Frazier, because of the mistreatment by the US government I wanted him redeemed.

Funny, all through the early years, when I was an outright anti-Clay guy, he beat everyone. My luck!

When I finally did find cause to support him, he has shlt night.

But anyway the answer to your trap question. This one is easy. I didn't like either Ali or Whittaker. But I did learn to respect Ali as a man. Pee Wee never got that far with me.

I also have no respect for Jack Johnson, another unnecessarily disrespectful clown.

Seems to me that you are simply upset that with one question Shoulder Roll exposed your hypocrisy, which is on full display here

[Hooded Terror]

This thread, with its vague question (lacking criteria that would define greatness) has devolved into who likes who, based on things said and done. It's not entirely surprising. After all, we are all human and apt to have subjective feelings and observations based on who pinged or triggered us. I get it. There are great fighters I couldn't stand. I waited for them to finally lose. I watched their career arcs evolve and their popularity rise, hoping all the while they'd finally face defeat. And when it came I celebrated. Later when they left the sport, I realized how much I missed them even though I had decided I didn't like them. I realized I was a fan even though I had never defined myself as one.

I watched Whitaker from 1984 through to his near forgotten inglorious ESPN featured defeat. I followed him as closely as I followed Hagler, Holmes, Spinks, Tyson or Holyfield of those eras. He was brilliant at his very best. When his star rose, he benefit from earlier momentum and cruised/clowned morseo than he had (to these eyes) pre-147. Along the way he dragged a few names through the mud and off camera, worked hard (they say) at disillusioning those that lauded him. His personal problems carried into his game and by 1996 he was more than a quart low, his compromised dedication became apparent as that career momentum waned. The Sweet Pea of 1997-onward bore little resmblance to the fighter that cut his teeth on network television or earned the big spotlight of those HBO showcase title defenses. Watching the wheels come off with Trinidad was a sin, given how Camp Popular had done everything to avoid the fading great for years. It was even worse when Whitaker slipped back in via the back door with his ill-advised return under the radar against Bojorquez in 2001 on ESPN. The wheels suddenly just came off.

With Pacquiao I took notice when he hot waxed Ledwaba on HBO in 2001. He left me wanting to see more. He was a terror in the ring and a smiling respectful personality espousing his desire to face any foe, always taking the time to acknowledge the competition. He was, like Whitaker, a marvelous package but with a few sublime rough edges and a fighting spirit that said damn the torpedos, full speed ahead! By the time Oscar had made the highly transparent choice to recaptue past glory against a naturally smaller foe, Manny was not only in top gear, he was in top form. Enough to force a key rival to play "touch me not" over years (much like the Trinidad situation with Whitaker). But here's the thing with Manny. When he was waxed hard in front of the whole world, he ultimately managed to regroup, return and give us years of more value, in time, amazing us, long after his expiration date.

Who was greater?

Apples and oranges to an extent. I haven't even listed criteria. Cluck for the buck? It depends what you are looking for when you handed over that buck.

Who would you rather have over for an afternoon of beers and barbeque? Again, subjective, but I'd bet you do better with the guy who smiled more and spewed far less venom.

[Willie Pep 229]

Seems to me that you are simply upset that with one question Shoulder Roll exposed your hypocrisy, which is on full display here

Seems to me you spend way too much time up Shoulder's butt (you own butt). Insert ****** luaging cartoon here.

[Willie Pep 229]

Do you really think I need an alt to post to you?

You are so ****ing sensitive. Don't agree with your every dream about your idol and suddenly you abandon the topic for personal attacks. Try being a man for once in your life.

Yes I do. I think you need to constantly recieve comformation even if you have to give it to yourself; you use an alt, so in your own mind, you think you look good.

I think it's really cute the way "he" always seems to appear just a day after you reappear.

And of course the way you both never participate unless there is an opportunity to make yourself supposedly look good by making someone else look bad, i.e. your constant use of trap questions; asking the same question over and over, perversely thinking it makes you look right, it is the most obvious evidence that you are the same person.

Seriously, there is sonething wrong with you, your need to find fortune in other men's eyes, is in itself, a mental illness. (Insert ****** laughing cartoon here.)

I'm sure I'll hear from Shoulder real soon now!

[ShoulderRoll]

Yes I do. I think you need to constantly recieve comformation even if you have to give it to yourself; you use an alt, so in your own mind, you think you look good.

I think it's really cute the way "he" always seems to appear just a day after you reappear.

And of course the way you both never participate unless there is an opportunity to make yourself supposedly look good by making someone else look bad, i.e. your constant use of trap questions; asking the same question over and over, perversely thinking it makes you look right, it is the most obvious evidence that you are the same person.

Seriously, there is sonething wrong with you, your need to find fortune in other men's eyes, is in itself, a mental illness. (Insert ****** laughing cartoon here.)

I'm sure I'll hear from Shoulder real soon now!

You made yourself look bad by being dismissive of Whitaker, one of the greatest lightweights ever. Just because he was disrespectful.

[QueensburyRules]

Fair enough. If you think that a fighter being disrespectful to other boxers means you don’t have to respect their obvious skills then that is your right.

- - I tend to be dismissive of Pea, but really it's his fans who are so off the wall it beggers whether they ever watched a boxing match.

He had a lot of good qualities he could've done more with, but his trainer, Duva, was dumb as a jockstrap, and so let Pea do what he wanted is my take

[Willie Pep 229]

- - I tend to be dismissive of Pea, but really it's his fans who are so off the wall it beggers whether they ever watched a boxing match.

He had a lot of good qualities he could've done more with, but his trainer, Duva, was dumb as a jockstrap, and so let Pea do what he wanted is my take

I always felt Duva was all in with Whitaker and less respectful of Taylor. The timing of the Chavez fights in particluiar.

IMO Duva manged, positioned, protected Whitaker better than Taylor.

But then again maybe that's just 20-20 hindsight fooling me.

But the Duvas, Lou and promoter son Dan, gave Whitaker the better 'Chavez' to get; felt like Taylor got fed to the HBO/Don King 'Chavez Show' when Chavez was peaking.

Later Whitaker got the mega fight and a worn Chavez.

Duva could have switched those two at the time of Chavez-Taylor (I).

I wonder.

[QueensburyRules]

I always felt Duva was all in with Whitaker and less respectful of Taylor. The timing of the Chavez fights in particluiar.

IMO Duva manged, positioned, protected Whitaker better than Taylor.

But then again maybe that's just 20-20 hindsight fooling me.

But the Duvas, Lou and promoter son Dan, gave Whitaker the better 'Chavez' to get; felt like Taylor got fed to the HBO/Don King 'Chavez Show' when Chavez was peaking.

Later Whitaker got the mega fight and a worn Chavez.

Duva could have switched those two at the time of Chavez-Taylor (I).

I wonder.

- - Taylor was a mega talented all in offensive boxer faster of hand and foot and bigger star than Pea until the JC derangement. Duva thought rightly he was the best one to take JC, and after that disaster kept Pea from JC until he started into his creaky stage.

It's not very good fight with JC slow, off balance, but plowing forward with Pea clowning, mocking, and occasionally engaging. As I mentioned, traditional judging then didn't award points for clowning and mocking, esp in JC home environs of San Antonio, a 2nd home for him for his people.

Duva shoulda been reading Pea the riot act, but in reality couldn't stop the clowning any more than Golota's trainer could stop his low blows in fights he was was winning.