Johnson vs Langford 1909

[QueensburyRules]

Yes I know Canada I've been to Toronto. Burns never drew over $17,000 there.Johnson received $31,500 ,[the box rec figures are wrong] plus a% of the movies from promoter Barney Curley for beating up Flynn.
NB Johnson later cabled Burns and told him he was prepared to defend against McCarty at the Manchester Arena Calgary for $30,000.Burns didnt want to know!
I'll ask you again produce ONE offer from Burns or ANY promoter for a Johnson v Burns rematch!

Game Set and Match! lol

- - Burns' Arena was in Calgary, about as far removed from Toronto as London is from Rome.

McCarty irrelevant as to Burns vs JJohnson or JJ defense in Wasteland, New Mexico. Fight movies were banned in the US after his Jeffries fight...duh, and what Euros gonna pay to see Fireman Flynn in another JJ stinker? You realize he was eventually kicked out of France and later Mexico when he finally gave in to surrender to the Feds at an arranged border crossing.

What part of this do you disagree with?

• April 17, 1912: New Mexico passes the Tripp prize-fight law, permitting 45-round contests, specifically with this fight in mind. [1]
• On the day of the bout, carpenters were still working on the arena, while fans were entering, putting on the finishing touches.
• There was a crowd of approximately 4,500.
• Johnson received $21,000 instead of the $31,000 he was promised. Two days before the fight, when things looked very bad for a big house, he agreed to take less.
• The promotion was not successful. Promoter Jack Curley said: "I stand to loss about $15,000 of my own money."
• Referee Smith stated after the fight: "Jim Flynn disgraced everybody by fighting as foul a battle as a man can devise. . . . I was about to disqualify him and give the contest to the champion when the state police burst into the ring and declared the thing at an end."

[Ivich]

- - Burns' Arena was in Calgary, about as far removed from Toronto as London is from Rome.

McCarty irrelevant as to Burns vs JJohnson or JJ defense in Wasteland, New Mexico. Fight movies were banned in the US after his Jeffries fight...duh, and what Euros gonna pay to see Fireman Flynn in another JJ stinker? You realize he was eventually kicked out of France and later Mexico when he finally gave in to surrender to the Feds at an arranged border crossing.

What part of this do you disagree with?

• April 17, 1912: New Mexico passes the Tripp prize-fight law, permitting 45-round contests, specifically with this fight in mind. [1]
• On the day of the bout, carpenters were still working on the arena, while fans were entering, putting on the finishing touches.
• There was a crowd of approximately 4,500.
• Johnson received $21,000 instead of the $31,000 he was promised. Two days before the fight, when things looked very bad for a big house, he agreed to take less.
• The promotion was not successful. Promoter Jack Curley said: "I stand to loss about $15,000 of my own money."
• Referee Smith stated after the fight: "Jim Flynn disgraced everybody by fighting as foul a battle as a man can devise. . . . I was about to disqualify him and give the contest to the champion when the state police burst into the ring and declared the thing at an end."

You asked me if I knew Canada.I replied I have been there.I didn't claim Calgary was near Toronto which is on the US Border.I know where Calgary is, I have 2 friends living there .
Nope, fight movies were never banned in the US,the transportation of them over state lines was banned.
I already told you Box Rec's facts are wrong on this.
Curley did lose money,but Johnson didn't ,read Pollack's book. I've read 6 Johnson bios now ,I'm up to speed on him

[QueensburyRules]

You asked me if I knew Canada.I replied I have been there.I didn't claim Calgary was near Toronto which is on the US Border.I know where Calgary is, I have 2 friends living there .
Nope, fight movies were never banned in the US,the transportation of them over state lines was banned.
I already told you Box Rec's facts are wrong on this.
Curley did lose money,but Johnson didn't ,read Pollack's book. I've read 6 Johnson bios now ,I'm up to speed on him

- - You implied that Burns was shyte in Toronto when in fact the Johnson challenge was for Burns Arena with him as promoter.

Actually JJohnson was right in ducking this home cooking, but in fact Burns had the venue and backing to make the fight made.

So JJ/Flynn fight film reaps the riches of sparsely populated New Mexico! That and a quarter would buy you unlimited cups of coffee in New Mexico.

[Ivich]

- - You implied that Burns was shyte in Toronto when in fact the Johnson challenge was for Burns Arena with him as promoter.

Actually JJohnson was right in ducking this home cooking, but in fact Burns had the venue and backing to make the fight made.

So JJ/Flynn fight film reaps the riches of sparsely populated New Mexico! That and a quarter would buy you unlimited cups of coffee in New Mexico.

I never mentioned Burns in relation to Toronto! I just said I had been to Toronto! I've asked you twice to name a venue and promoter ,are you now saying that Burns and Johnson entered into dialogue regarding them re-matching in Canada ?They didn't , and Burns built his arena to promote and show case his protege Pelkey not on the off chanceJohnson would consent to a rematch!
Burns was such a money spinning big deal in Canada from1912 to 1918 he had 3 fights there. A 6 rounder with Pelkey and to joke fights with nobodies,Bob Bracken 2-5-1
And Bill Rickard 1-2-0.
He must have made a fortune!

[QueensburyRules]

I never mentioned Burns in relation to Toronto! I just said I had been to Toronto! I've asked you twice to name a venue and promoter ,are you now saying that Burns and Johnson entered into dialogue regarding them re-matching in Canada ?They didn't , and Burns built his arena to promote and show case his protege Pelkey not on the off chanceJohnson would consent to a rematch!
Burns was such a money spinning big deal in Canada from1912 to 1918 he had 3 fights there. A 6 rounder with Pelkey and to joke fights with nobodies,Bob Bracken 2-5-1
And Bill Rickard 1-2-0.
He must have made a fortune!

- - YOU mentioned Tommy in Toronto not a draw vs JJohnson, but the fight was never proposed by Tommy in Toronto, but at his new arena in Calgary.

Post JJ, Tommy has 6 fights over a 12 year period, last one being in England. His comeback was in Oz, then fought 3 Canadian fights and 1 US, the big one being Pelkey in Tommy's Arena where he wanted JJ. Pelkey/McCarty was held months later in Tommy's new arena, but result was a horrible boxing tragedy that left McCarty mysteriously dead and Tommy's Arena burnt to the ground.

I don't blame JJ for that since he seemed game to fight McCarty, most likely in Tommy's Arena since it's doubtful JJ could secure a fight in the US.

As mentioned, up until this time, Tommy had the means, Venue, and backing for the JJ rematch at his Arena, so pull your PHEW noggin out and start smelling the roses.

Tommy had his JJ fight stopped prematurely, and felt like he could beat JJ in the rematch but for JJ being in a pickle of his own making, but now Tommy's Arena and investment burnt to the ground...The End!!!

[Ivich]

- - YOU mentioned Tommy in Toronto not a draw vs JJohnson, but the fight was never proposed by Tommy in Toronto, but at his new arena in Calgary.

Post JJ, Tommy has 6 fights over a 12 year period, last one being in England. His comeback was in Oz, then fought 3 Canadian fights and 1 US, the big one being Pelkey in Tommy's Arena where he wanted JJ. Pelkey/McCarty was held months later in Tommy's new arena, but result was a horrible boxing tragedy that left McCarty mysteriously dead and Tommy's Arena burnt to the ground.

I don't blame JJ for that since he seemed game to fight McCarty, most likely in Tommy's Arena since it's doubtful JJ could secure a fight in the US.

As mentioned, up until this time, Tommy had the means, Venue, and backing for the JJ rematch at his Arena, so pull your PHEW noggin out and start smelling the roses.

Tommy had his JJ fight stopped prematurely, and felt like he could beat JJ in the rematch but for JJ being in a pickle of his own making, but now Tommy's Arena and investment burnt to the ground...The End!!!

This is what you posted.

- Burns built an arena specifically for the rematch, the arena where the surreal tragedy of Luther McCarthy's tragic ring death occurred resulting in a bogus murder charge against Arthur Pelkey that bankrupted and ruined him. Arsonists burned down Burns' arena during the night that near ruined Burns.
ITS WRONG!

Burns and Johnson were never in talks for a rematch anywhere!
Burns built the arena to promote his protege Arthur Pelkey.
You need to produce verified dates, offers ,and figures when you make these grandiose statements , you never do,and you won't now!
looking back at my post I can see my wording may have confused you.
"Yes I know Canada I've been to Toronto. Burns never drew over $17,000 there."

I was referring to Canada as a whole ,not Toronto,a badly constructed sentence on my part but the word "there ,"should have indicated I meant the country as a whole.
Why do you say the Burns fight was stopped prematurely? Burns did not win a round ,he was floored several times,his jaw was described as being grotesquely swollen ,he eyes were badly bruised ,his nose bloody ,and blood dripped form his mouth. The Police had come up to ringside in the previous round inquiring about Burns health and threatening to stop the fight ,nothing premature about that stoppage!
To suggest otherwise is frankly ridiculous.

[Dr. Z]

You'd think Johnson would have honored the contact after the Burns fight yet he did not! You would think his manger who say Langford made things up about the fight where Johnson had 30 pounds on the estimated 20 year old. That did not happen either! He is guilty of ducking the mature Sam Langford for years.

"
Mistah Johnson’s afraid to meet me, ’cause Mistah Gibson of the Fairmount Club once offered him $l0,000 to box six rounds with me. Mistah lohnson wouldn’t hear of it and ran away when he knew I was waitin' around the corner. Every time I tried to pin him down he said I’d have to put up $20,000 as a forfeit and aide r t ain’t so easy to get that much money together, and he knew that way the way to prevent a match"


" When met in Cheisea five years ago in a fifteen round bout. I weighed 140 pounds then, while Mistah Johnson weighed 190 "


You can read that anymore here.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1

[travestyny]

You'd think Johnson would have honored the contact after the Burns fight yet he did not!

No, I wouldn't think that. No one in his position would fight for peanuts when he just won the jackpot. Much less fight a beast like Langford for peanuts. That would be idiotic. He clearly made the right decision.

[Dr. Z]

No, I wouldn't think that. No one in his position would fight for peanuts when he just won the jackpot. Much less fight a beast like Langford for peanuts. That would be idiotic. He clearly made the right decision.

Well, 6 rounds for $10,000,00 was the top purse amount back then for such a short fight, was it not? Peanuts you say?


" Mistah Johnson’s afraid to meet me, ’cause Mistah Gibson of the Fairmount Club once offered him $l0,000 to box six rounds with me. Mistah lohnson wouldn’t hear of it and ran away when he knew I was waitin' around the corner. Every time I tried to pin him down he said I’d have to put up $20,000 as a forfeit and aide r t ain’t so easy to get that much money together, and he knew that way the way to prevent a match"

[travestyny]

Well, 6 rounds for $10,000,00 was the top purse amount back then for such a short fight, was it not? Peanuts you say?


" Mistah Johnson’s afraid to meet me, ’cause Mistah Gibson of the Fairmount Club once offered him $l0,000 to box six rounds with me. Mistah lohnson wouldn’t hear of it and ran away when he knew I was waitin' around the corner. Every time I tried to pin him down he said I’d have to put up $20,000 as a forfeit and aide r t ain’t so easy to get that much money together, and he knew that way the way to prevent a match"

You were talking about the contract. The contract wasn't for $10,000,000. Nowhere near it.

Johnson accepted fights with Langford at least 3 times. Once Langford dodged out of, another Langford apparently couldn't raise the money. One was canceled by the promoter.