The Top-10 All Time Greatest P4P List

[Silence]

What are your top 10 P4P ATG?

1- Sugar Ray Robinson
2- Harry Greb
3- Henry Armstrong
4- Sam Langford
5- Ezzard Charles
6- Roberto Duran
7- Manny Pacquiao
8- Bob Fitzsimmons
9- Floyd Mayweather Jr.
10- Canelo Alvarez

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Honorable Mentions: Sugar Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, Archie Moore, Roy Jones Jr., Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Tommy Hearns.

Note: There ain't sticky topic about top 10 P4P ATG. Admins can stick that if they want.

[JAB5239]

1. Langford
2. Greb
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Charles
6. Duran
7. Pep
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Pacquiao
10. R. Leonard

[DeeMoney]

1. Langford
2. Greb
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Charles
6. Duran
7. Pep
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Pacquiao
10. R. Leonard

Not questioning your list, probably similar to mine. But I am always interested, what criteria do you use, and to what extent does each criteria play a part?

[JAB5239]

Not questioning your list, probably similar to mine. But I am always interested, what criteria do you use, and to what extent does each criteria play a part?

Resume mostly. When it come to p4p, over how many weight classes. Dominance. How a fighter fared against other ATG's if applicable.

[Silence]

1. Langford
2. Greb
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Charles
6. Duran
7. Pep
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Pacquiao
10. R. Leonard

Not bad except Pep. He is way overrated. One division merchant and had weak resume. Statpadded 62-0 against bums. Then, lost three times badly to only very great fighter on his resume. I respect his skills. He was modern for his time and inspired some greats but he is more like top 20-25 type fighter.

Saddler is arguably greater fighter than him because of his SFW journey.

[JAB5239]

Not bad except Pep. He is way overrated. One division merchant and had weak resume. Statpadded 62-0 against bums. Then, lost three times badly to only very great fighter on his resume. I respect his skills. He was modern for his time and inspired some greats but he is more like top 20-25 type fighter.

Saddler is arguably greater fighter than him because of his SFW journey.

Pep didn't fight Saddler until after he broke his back in a plane crash in '47. I'm not well versed in the division, but there were some very good names on his resume including Famechon, Demarco, Wright, Saddlers, Angott, Bartolo. Most fought multiple times. I disagree he is overrated.

[Silence]

Pep didn't fight Saddler until after he broke his back in a plane crash in '47. I'm not well versed in the division, but there were some very good names on his resume including Famechon, Demarco, Wright, Saddlers, Angott, Bartolo. Most fought multiple times. I disagree he is overrated.

Having a crash ain't fans' problem. As far as I know, there was no permanent damage. Maybe a little loss of agility. It ain't an excuse for Pep's being one division merchant.

For me, the shortest way to be great is to prove yourself at different weights. Especially if you have the disadvantage of height, reach and natural weight. Size "very" matters in boxing. I like your list. Nice to see Langford in the first place. I have always seen Langford and Greb as the best alternative to SRR. Every fighter on your list is a proven great at different weights. Pep ain't. He has no place on this list.

[DeeMoney]

Having a crash ain't fans' problem. As far as I know, there was no permanent damage. Maybe a little loss of agility. It ain't an excuse for Pep's being one division merchant.

For me, the shortest way to be great is to prove yourself at different weights. Especially if you have the disadvantage of height, reach and natural weight. Size "very" matters in boxing. I like your list. Nice to see Langford in the first place. I have always seen Langford and Greb as the best alternative to SRR. Every fighter on your list is a proven great at different weights. Pep ain't. He has no place on this list.

Thats interesting, as I am kind of the opposite. If a fighter wins because he has physical advantages (height, reach, etc) then more power to him- as long as he makes weight. For me, this is a sport and physical athletic abilities (including body type) are part of what makes an athlete, if you win because you are naturally bigger, then thats your strength and you still get the nod.

But like I wrote, there are all different types of ways to do this, we just have different criteria.

[QueensburyRules]

Having a crash ain't fans' problem. As far as I know, there was no permanent damage. Maybe a little loss of agility. It ain't an excuse for Pep's being one division merchant.

For me, the shortest way to be great is to prove yourself at different weights. Especially if you have the disadvantage of height, reach and natural weight. Size "very" matters in boxing. I like your list. Nice to see Langford in the first place. I have always seen Langford and Greb as the best alternative to SRR. Every fighter on your list is a proven great at different weights. Pep ain't. He has no place on this list.

- - U ain't providing a p4p list for us to snicker over is your problem not likely to be solved...

[BodyBagz]

TL/DR ?!?

I have a bias against the old timers (they look so crude and too many padded stats).
There are so many fighters from those days with no fights to watch that somehow keep making these lists.
Also, it's hard to make a list that is all inclusive.
99.whatever % of the time, HWs stay there. Not saying a guy has to move around weights, but it could help in his chase for ''greatness''.
HWs don't really have to train as rigorously as the lower classes do.
I don't watch those tiny guys (less than 115 lbs).
Going by TESTED TALENT (BEATING legit threats. Name of the game is WINNING.).
IDGAF about the stories historians wrote about. They had no idea of how much the sport will change.

Consider this - Most lists by experts will have Rocky Marciano ranked in the top 10 (or higher !!!!!)

This is NOT a H2H list

Fighters I think would excel regardless the era -
Ali
A legit resume. Wasn't a power puncher but it didn't matter. He was a master of mindfckery and had the tools to back it up. Gave so called killers multiple fights to prove it was no fluke.

RJJ
I kinda don't want to put him this high due to his questionable resume. but he was phenomenal. No one can mess with him in his prime. I wish he would have not gone after Ruiz title.

SRR
I don't want to be perma banned for not having him in my top 3. As was the case with EVERYONE who fought in his days, resumes were padded AF. All of this fighting 12x a year bull****
Clearly quantity over quality

PBF/May
PBF was the perfect fighter. When he morphed into May, he was almost perfect. As is the case when fighters move up, their power usually doesn't follow. Add in his brittle hands and it's amazing he was so successful. Think about it. You're a boxer with bad hands....and no one can beat you ?!?!? I can't think of a smarter fighter.

Lewis
Yeah, yeah. Rahman and McCall. Lenny exacted immediate and resounding revenge. IMHO, he would dominate any div he fought in. Massive power and not the typical robotic Euro guy. Legit resume as well. Heaven help these fools pretending to be HWs if Lenny were around.

SRL
Homeboy was a smaller Ali. Hated how him and Hagler didn't fight when both were at their best. Wasn't a fan of his above WW.

Hagler
A true warrior. Nothing flashy. My only issue with him was he could be lured into brawls when he was smarter than that. He was not an eat 10 hoping to land one caveman. Sometimes he fought like it.

Pea
Not a favorite of mine and almost unwatchable but dude was a winner.

Hop
(See Pea)

Duran
He was Barrera, Morales and JMM wrapped up in 1. Wasn't a fan of his when he moved up. He didn't embarrass himself but not his best.


Notes -
I didn't include,
Pac because his entire WW resume is shady AF. Between guys at their worst and *'s, that is too many fights for me to ignore. I give him credit for moving up and being ''fun to watch''. His resume does not match the hype and I don't think his skill level would carry him through the eras.

Holmes because of his retched resume. I do feel he could have beaten every HW that ever was but his resume is just too weak.....which is not his fault. A guy can only fight who's there. Which is why I don't like ranking HWs high.

Mike Tyson, mostly for the same reason as Pac....however, imho, Mike would absolutely destroy all of those old time HWs. Would most likely dominate this era (big whoop) with ease.

Tua and Holy....Legit resumes but Tua just couldn't get those big wins. Holy was a bigger version of Hagler but more flawed. Both would definitely manhandle old timers and these present day bums.

Fck them old timers