Let's talk about Canelo's ATG place.

[Silence]

Background and Amateur Days
A ginger boy from Guadalajara, Mexico who has white skin. His family weren't rich and he grew up by selling ice cream in mobile on the streets. He was the youngest in the family and had 7 older brothers. Although all of his brothers are boxers, he started boxing as late as 13 and turned professional at his 15 after his 44-2 amateur career. He became Junior Mexican National finalist in 2004 and champion in 2005. The main reason he turned pro was because he beat even big guys with his superior talent and "bullied" teenagers his own age in the ring. Parents were complaining about this situation.

Professional Career
- Record is 58-2-2.
- 62.9% KO rate.
- Fought in 5 divisions.
- Became champion in 5 divisions and became world champion in 4 divisions.
- Became unified at 154 and 160, became undisputed at 168.
- Won 17 titles.
- Defended his titles 12 times.
- KO'd his oppponents in title fights 11 times.
- His resume is pretty strong and fought fighters like Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, 3x Golovkin, Kovalev, Lara, Trout, Jacobs, Saunders, Khan, Bivol, C.Smith.
- Became N1 P4P on the planet between 7th November 2019 and 7th May 2022 straight 2.5 years.
- Fought N1 P4P on the planet Mayweather in 2013.
- Beat Golovkin when he was N1 P4P on the planet between 2017-2018.
- Schooled N1 SMW on the planet and Super Six winner C.Smith in 2020.
- Fought N1 LHW on the planet Bivol in 2022.
- Schooled N1 MW on the planet Golovkin in 2022.
- Won WBC, WBA, WBO and The Ring belts at 154.
- Won WBC, WBA, IBF and The Ring belts at 160.
- Won WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO and The Ring belts at 168.
- Won WBO belt at 175.
- Only undisputed SMW champion in history of boxing.
- Beat Fielding at 168, Jacobs at 160 and Kovalev at 175. Held those three belts "at the same time". Repeated some Armstrong level shıt.

Fighting Style
He is multi dimensional boxer-puncher and counter puncher. He was more of a boxer until the Kovalev fight and was trying creative combinations. Then, he became pressure one punch counter puncher. He walked down most of his naturally bigger opponents until Bivol exposed his style with his superior mobility and solid shell defense.

Strengths
Head movement, upper body movement, high guard, body balance, feints, counter punching/combination punching, one punch power, punch accuracy, ring generalship/IQ, chin and heart.

Good but not Great Attributes
Jab and footwork are seen his above average attributes.

He has some very good jab performances against jabbers like Jacobs and C.Smith despite his huge reach disadvantage. He also outjabbed Mosley, Angulo, Khan and Chavez Jr.

He has good footwork performances like first Golovkin fight. His footwork is technically good but he has "slow feet". His distance control is very good and he can use his footwork at his back foot and mostly at his front foot. He can cut the ring.

Weaknesses
Stamina is his only weakness. His stamina is effective on his pace and punch output. He can't fight at high pace and throw so many punches because of that.

Conclusion
Canelo is the face of boxing since Cotto fight and successor of Mayweather. He has his own era which called "Canelo Era". He was only two victories away from being "GOAT candidate" which are Bivol and Beterbiev. And, he thought that he could beat Usyk which could make him "undisputed GOAT" cause his Bivol, Beterbiev and Usyk victories would be ******ly good. So, he was only three victories away from being "undisputed GOAT by margin". Canelo also has arguably highest standards and expectations in history of boxing due to his moron haters.

But, those were fantasies and now I rank him at 12. If he wins a possibly Bivol rematch or returns to 160 and becomes undisputed, I'll rank him between top 10 and 5. If he stays at 168 and keep defending his belts there, I'll rank him around top 10.

[QueensburyRules]

Background and Amateur Days
A ginger boy from Guadalajara, Mexico who has white skin. His family weren't rich and he grew up by selling ice cream in mobile on the streets. He was the youngest in the family and had 7 older brothers. Although all of his brothers are boxers, he started boxing as late as 13 and turned professional at his 15 after his 44-2 amateur career. He became Junior Mexican National finalist in 2004 and champion in 2005. The main reason he turned pro was because he beat even big guys with his superior talent and "bullied" teenagers his own age in the ring. Parents were complaining about this situation.

Professional Career
- Record is 58-2-2.
- 62.9% KO rate.
- Fought in 5 divisions.
- Became champion in 5 divisions and became world champion in 4 divisions.
- Became unified at 154 and 160, became undisputed at 168.
- Won 17 titles.
- Defended his titles 12 times.
- KO'd his oppponents in title fights 11 times.
- His resume is pretty strong and fought fighters like Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, 3x Golovkin, Kovalev, Lara, Trout, Jacobs, Saunders, Khan, Bivol, C.Smith.
- Became N1 P4P on the planet between 7th November 2019 and 7th May 2022 straight 2.5 years.
- Fought N1 P4P on the planet Mayweather in 2013.
- Beat Golovkin when he was N1 P4P on the planet between 2017-2018.
- Schooled N1 SMW on the planet and Super Six winner C.Smith in 2020.
- Fought N1 LHW on the planet Bivol in 2022.
- Schooled N1 MW on the planet Golovkin in 2022.
- Won WBC, WBA, WBO and The Ring belts at 154.
- Won WBC, WBA, IBF and The Ring belts at 160.
- Won WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO and The Ring belts at 168.
- Won WBO belt at 175.
- Only undisputed SMW champion in history of boxing.
- Beat Fielding at 168, Jacobs at 160 and Kovalev at 175. Held those three belts "at the same time". Repeated some Armstrong level shıt.

Fighting Style
He is multi dimensional boxer-puncher and counter puncher. He was more of a boxer until the Kovalev fight and was trying creative combinations. Then, he became pressure one punch counter puncher. He walked down most of his naturally bigger opponents until Bivol exposed his style with his superior mobility and solid shell defense.

Strengths
Head movement, upper body movement, high guard, body balance, feints, counter punching/combination punching, one punch power, ring generalship/IQ, chin and heart.

Good but not Great Attributes
Jab and footwork are seen his above average attributes.

He has some very good jab performances against jabbers like Jacobs and C.Smith despite his huge reach disadvantage. He also outjabbed Mosley, Angulo, Khan and Chavez Jr.

He has good footwork performances like first Golovkin fight. His footwork is technically good but he has "slow feet". His distance control is very good and he can use his footwork at his back foot and mostly at his front foot. He can cut the ring.

Weaknesses
Stamina is his only weakness. His stamina is effective on his pace and punch output. He can't fight at high pace and throw so many punches because of that.

Conclusion
Canelo is the face of boxing since Cotto fight and successor of Mayweather. He has his own era which called "Canelo Era". He was only two victories away from being "GOAT candidate" which are Bivol and Beterbiev. And, he thought that he could beat Usyk which could make him "undisputed GOAT" cause his Bivol, Beterbiev and Usyk victories would be ******ly good. So, he was only three victories away from being "undisputed GOAT by margin". Canelo also has arguably highest standards and expectations in history of boxing due to his moron haters.

But, those were fantasies and now I rank him at 12. If he wins a possibly Bivol rematch or returns to 160 and becomes undisputed, I'll rank him between top 10 and 5. If he stays at 168 and keep defending his belts there, I'll rank him around top 10.

- - Great all around fighter who is generally able to minimize most weaknesses in his moment, but you simply cannot point out any fight where his stamina can be questioned. Mosely coming off his failed l'l floydy attempt and shyte showing vs Stinker King Mora put the 21 yr old kid through his paces, headbutting, low blowing, elbows, he threw the toolbox at Canelo including grappling, forcing his pace on Canelo who never once wilted.

Hate to say you been had when you're just another victim of the prevailing media echo chamber that has exalted Ducker/Quitter Fury so far beyond his station he might as well be fighting on Pluto.

Simply put, when Canelo backs to the ropes for defensive purposes where he can better set up his counters, he worn out. When Ali or l'l floydy back to the ropes, savvy defense that they rely on 10x more than Canelo.

So it's problematic rating Canelo when when the vast majority of the media simply don't know what they talk of much of the time, yet paid well on a platform to do just that as they promote their product that only nominally includes the fighters, ye olde trick of Steak Houses when they sell the sizzle, not the steak.

IBHOF lock no matter who ranks Canelo where.

[The Old LefHook]

Canelo has a better start on it than anyone else in boxing. He has faced an incredible lineup of toughies. He fought evenly with GGG 1-1-1, realistically. That makes him pretty darned good right there, if nothing higher. Then there is his competition. I don't see anyone else with near the ledger he has and willingness to face tough opposition without interminable negotiations. I am not even a fan of his, yet I have to admit these truths. He has the only champion's attitude existing in boxing today. He hasn't taken care of two fighters-- one a weight bully, the other overrated because of one picture perfect KO.

I don't know about the clenelo thing. It seems to me he probably cheated, but maybe not. If he did, that does not make him a loner. They all do it. Every athlete tells you they all do it. A clean pugilist does not stand a chance against an equal fighter on crab juice. I can only prove that a few fighters use the crab juice, but these scores of athletes cannot all be lying, can they? I do not defend juice. Realistically, if he did use juice, that act probably merely evened the playing field. Still no excuse for juice. None of that changes the fact that he is the only champ in boxing today who makes matches like someone interested their legacy.

[Silence]

- - Great all around fighter who is generally able to minimize most weaknesses in his moment, but you simply cannot point out any fight where his stamina can be questioned. Mosely coming off his failed l'l floydy attempt and shyte showing vs Stinker King Mora put the 21 yr old kid through his paces, headbutting, low blowing, elbows, he threw the toolbox at Canelo including grappling, forcing his pace on Canelo who never once wilted.

Hate to say you been had when you're just another victim of the prevailing media echo chamber that has exalted Ducker/Quitter Fury so far beyond his station he might as well be fighting on Pluto.

Simply put, when Canelo backs to the ropes for defensive purposes where he can better set up his counters, he worn out. When Ali or l'l floydy back to the ropes, savvy defense that they rely on 10x more than Canelo.

So it's problematic rating Canelo when when the vast majority of the media simply don't know what they talk of much of the time, yet paid well on a platform to do just that as they promote their product that only nominally includes the fighters, ye olde trick of Steak Houses when they sell the sizzle, not the steak.

IBHOF lock no matter who ranks Canelo where.

I don't care about media. Media's task is spreading BS narratives. Editors ain't very bright personalities either. ATG lists are significant when they are made by reliable boxing historians and analysts.

If we return to topic, I think we never saw Canelo's true potential because of three reasons.

1- Canelo had legitimate stamina problems in his career at any weight. And, that prevented us from seeing Canelo's true potential. I can't even imagine how good he would be with higher punch output. Can you imagine Canelo with 800 punch attempts per fight? His career best was 622 in GGG rematch.

2- Canelo never had strong amateur background. He fought only 46 times and didn't fight any significant name and turned into pro at his teenager days like typical Latin fighters. He could have more losses but those would make him better fighter. Most ATG fighters have solid amateur background.

3- Reynoso grew up with Canelo as a trainer. Canelo never had elite trainer. Reynoso's all crew (Garcia, Ruiz, Valdez and Sanchez) left because of his attitudes. Canelo carried him and made him trainer of 2021.

Canelo is high level ATG despite his poor punch output, mediocre amateur career and overrated trainer. Media will never mention about those.

[IronDanHamza]

Somewhere amongst the Top 100.

Probably between 80-100 somewhere like that.

[Anthony342]

Let's not and say we did. Or wait until his career is over.