The famed BoxRec.com takes a crack at Boxing History

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm at a loss to discern this man's criteria.

Both concerning names omitted and names placed significantly above men who proved themselves superior to them.

Those names not there include;

Joe Gans
Jack Johnson
Joe Walcott
Terry McGovern
Jimmy Wilde
Abe Attell
Jim Driscoll
Freddie Welsh
Sam Langford
Pete Herman


If Mr Pearce has a time cut off period that would make these omissions understandable, but I see no mention of one.
More recent others not there include;
Bob Foster
Billy Conn
Mike Spinks
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Miguel Canto
Ricardo Lopez .
Fighting Harada
Sandy Saddler
Joe Brown

Personally I couldn't justify leaving them out but including
Kessler
Humez
Maxim
Fields
Laguna
Crawford
Scholz
Carroll
Indrisano
Olson
Forest
Kalambay
V Klitschko
Loi
Turpin
Tszu
Benvenuti
Locche

Any list like this is personally subjective some we will all agree with some we will scratch our heads over

Another bone of contention for me is
Fullmer at 31 but no Zale or Steele?
Marcel Thil was an underated middle weight but does he deserve to be on a list that leaves out
Tiger.Zale.Steele?
Tiger at 46 yet Fullmer is at 31? What is that based on?

Carrol
Forest
Kessler
Indrisano
Scholz
Humez
Benvenuti
Turpin
Loi
Olson
Fields
Locche
Humez
Do not belong on any best 100 boxer list .imo
For me this is a very poor list,but it's Mr Pearce's list not Box Rec's.

Perhaps though it will serve as a talking point and focus our dislike on it rather than each other? lol
Perhaps?

BOLD Those are big names he left out! - A couple of them, e.g. Gans, Spinks, Langford really brings his list into question.

I would throw in Packy McFarland and Terry McGovern.

I think Benvenuti belongs on the list, 64 straight wins at JMW until he got jobbed in Korea. Then several big, competive fights as MW Champion. Benvenuti-Monzon (I) may well have been Monzon's toughest title fight. Benvenuti gets little credit for that fight because of his dismal performance in the rematch. (Won two of three from Griffith, and Emile's on everyone's list.)

Don't think Turpin is wrongly ommitted. This will probably piss you off - lol - but isn't Turpin really just a one fight (fan recognized) wonder?

What do you think of my complaint about having Holman Williams in the top ten?

P.S. I don't like where were I'm rank at (73) --> I belong, at least, in the top twenty.

[The Old LefHook]

The list is flat obscene. Ivich and Dan Hammy listed some of the reasons. I agree with all their assertions. Hammy and I would actually have one issue. I would not have Mayweather in the top group because his ledger was not strong enough IMO. Even Hammy admits it was not the greatest ledger, but I don't know if this would affect his ranking much, for he speaks mighty highly of Meadowlark Mayweather. I would probably place ol' Meadowlark in the 21-30 range. Maybe. If you do not fight the toughest when they are still tough, you do not mean much to me in the ring showing off.

Another obscene part of the list is Duran's ranking. I don't really care how others pump the Cuban up, Duran would have beaten Napoles as a welterweight, and I would be ready to bet my house on that. Glass bearded Roy is even ahead of Fists on Stone. Jones beat Ruiz, whereas Duran only beat Sugar Ray Leonard. Go figure.

I will take another look at Napoles AGAIN. I do not want to short shrift the man. I know he was good, but I think he belongs in the 70' or 80's, not ahead of Duran. Only a churl wipe halfwit is likely to rate him above Duran IMO, opinions which I have shown can always change. Duran rightfully belongs in the top 10, IMO. Period.

[Willow The Wisp]

Bert Sugar's top 100, like any top 100, is going to draw out our critical thoughts too.
Many regard his well considered picks to be the gold standard of such ambitious lists. Many will, of course, vehemently beg to differ. But, it's a much better list IMO at least, than the one just published by BoxRec shown up top.
On this one however, you will note that some fairly recent fighters Roy Jones Jr., Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Ricardo Lopez, Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson show up, but don't look for Floyd Mayweather Jr, Manny Pacquiao, Joe Calzaghe, Oscar De La Hoya, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Naseem Hamed, Felix Trinidad, Lennox Lewis, Kostya Tszyu, Juan Manuel Marquez, Miguel Cotto, Sergio Martinez, Andre Ward, Wladimir Klitschko, Shane Mosley, Gennady Golovkin, Tyson Fury, Saul Alvarez, Terence Crawford, Oleksandr Usyk or Vasiliy Lomachenko.
Bert limited the number of revisions made in the 2006 edition to his original 1984 classic copyright. And he died in 2012.

Here's the final (June 7, 2005) list:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross
21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern
31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns
51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. **** Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale
71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster
76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez
86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins
92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney
94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie
96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland
98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins
100. Mike Tyson

[Ivich]

BOLD Those are big names he left out! - A couple of them, e.g. Gans, Spinks, Langford really brings his list into question.

I would throw in Packy McFarland and Terry McGovern.

I think Benvenuti belongs on the list, 64 straight wins at JMW until he got jobbed in Korea. Then several big, competive fights as MW Champion. Benvenuti-Monzon (I) may well have been Monzon's toughest title fight. Benvenuti gets little credit for that fight because of his dismal performance in the rematch. (Won two of three from Griffith, and Emile's on everyone's list.)

Don't think Turpin is wrongly ommitted. This will probably piss you off - lol - but isn't Turpin really just a one fight (fan recognized) wonder?

What do you think of my complaint about having Holman Williams in the top ten?

P.S. I don't like where were I'm rank at (73) --> I belong, at least, in the top twenty.

I said Turpin should not be there,he was far too inconsistant.imo. I'm not partisan when it comes to ranking boxers nationality isnt a factor for me.


Holman Williams sits comfortably in the 100 but is far too high imo.

I would imagine most serious students of the game, let alone just fans like myself, would find room for McFarland.
Mayweather has cherry picked his opponents imo,whereas Manny continually went up in weight taking on guys in or near their prime.

Floyd always beats Manny imo ,but the Filipino is by far the greater fighter imo

[Ivich]

Bert Sugar's top 100, like any top 100, is going to draw out our critical thoughts too.
Many regard his well considered picks to be the gold standard of such ambitious lists. Many will, of course, vehemently beg to differ. But, it's a much better list IMO at least, than the one just published by BoxRec shown up top.
On this one however, you will note that some fairly recent fighters Roy Jones Jr., Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Ricardo Lopez, Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson show up, but don't look for Floyd Mayweather Jr, Manny Pacquiao, Joe Calzaghe, Oscar De La Hoya, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Naseem Hamed, Felix Trinidad, Lennox Lewis, Kostya Tszyu, Juan Manuel Marquez, Miguel Cotto, Sergio Martinez, Andre Ward, Wladimir Klitschko, Shane Mosley, Gennady Golovkin, Tyson Fury, Saul Alvarez, Terence Crawford, Oleksandr Usyk or Vasiliy Lomachenko.
Bert limited the number of revisions made in the 2006 edition to his original 1984 classic copyright. And he died in 2012.

Here's the final (June 7, 2005) list:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross
21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern
31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns
51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. **** Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale
71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster
76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez
86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins
92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney
94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie
96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland
98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins
100. Mike Tyson

While I found Sugar entertaining I never gave him much credibility as a historian or serious boxing man.
He was a salesman ,and what he was selling was largely BS oft repeated tales that had been discredited many times. His presence at some of the events he said he was at have proven to be chronologically doubtful.
That said ,his list is as good as most imo ,but I'd expect many on here could produce one as decent really.

[Willow The Wisp]

While I found Sugar entertaining I never gave him much credibility as a historian or serious boxing man.
He was a salesman ,and what he was selling was largely BS oft repeated tales that had been discredited many times. His presence at some of the events he said he was at have proven to be chronologically doubtful.
That said ,his list is as good as most imo ,but I'd expect many on here could produce one as decent really.

Every word is true. I very much liked Bert, but he was more of a "celebrity boxing persona" than an acedemic subject scholar like Herb Goldman or Hank Kaplan or many others with whom I've spent time. I see Teddy Atlas as being in a similar vein, something largely unbeknownst to most casual fans and the TV executives who created Atlas as an authority. Though he refused to let the facts get in the way of a good yarn, Bert had an engaging if offbeat writing style, and genuinely appreciated the fighters, which for me is an imperative for anyone who I will discuss the sport with.