Jeffries-Johnson a different question . . .

[Willie Pep 229]

Do you think that Jeffries-Billy Delaney (trainer) ever saw Jack Johnson before Reno?

I would suspect that if they did it would be against those few known white fighters JJ tangled with, e.g. Hart, Choyniski.

I can't see them visiting all black fights. But maybe.

At that point JJ was probably only avaible on film for the Burns fight. That could have made its way to North America in two years. Not sure how good studying film was back then.

Anyway do you think Jeffries/Delaney had a chance to study JJ?

Do you think JJ got to scout Champion Jeffries when JJ was climbing into position?

P.S. Tunney never missed a Dempsey fight, he was planning his attack as early as 1920.

[JAB5239]

Do you think that Jeffries-Billy Delaney (trainer) ever saw Jack Johnson before Reno?

I would suspect that if they did it would be against those few known white fighters JJ tangled with, e.g. Hart, Choyniski.

I can't see them visiting all black fights. But maybe.

At that point JJ was probably only avaible on film for the Burns fight. That could have made its way to North America in two years. Not sure how good studying film was back then.

Anyway do you think Jeffries/Delaney had a chance to study JJ?

Do you think JJ got to scout Champion Jeffries when JJ was climbing into position?

P.S. Tunney never missed a Dempsey fight, he was planning his attack as early as 1920.

I doubt either of them saw much film of the paper, bit rather went by what they read. I wouldn't know I w for sure, but that would be my guess.

[Dr. Z]

Do you think that Jeffries-Billy Delaney (trainer) ever saw Jack Johnson before Reno?

I would suspect that if they did it would be against those few known white fighters JJ tangled with, e.g. Hart, Choyniski.

I can't see them visiting all black fights. But maybe.

At that point JJ was probably only avaible on film for the Burns fight. That could have made its way to North America in two years. Not sure how good studying film was back then.

Anyway do you think Jeffries/Delaney had a chance to study JJ?

Do you think JJ got to scout Champion Jeffries when JJ was climbing into position?

P.S. Tunney never missed a Dempsey fight, he was planning his attack as early as 1920.

Billy Delaney ( Jeffries old trainer for some of his championship fights ) had a falling out with Jeffries and in fact was hired by Jack Johnson to be in his corner! Advantage to Johnson as he knew Jeffries like a book. During their fight he barked out orders to Johnson..

[travestyny]

He was at least familiar with how fighters stacked up against each other.

When Jeffries refused to fight Sam McVea, he stated that Jack Johnson was "a little fella" compared to Sam McVea, and Johnson beating him means that McVea shouldn't be considered for a shot....beyond him also stating he would refuse to fight any "colored fighter."

But it would take a lot more digging to know just how much he knew of Johnson.

[GhostofDempsey]

Another man who shared a connection with the two was heavyweight Bob Armstrong. He was a B-rate large black HW who served as co-trainer and sparring partner for Johnson, Langford, Jeffries and several other top fighters of the day. He was hired by Jeffries as main sparring partner in preparation for his fight with Johnson. George Cotton would be one of Johnson’s main sparring partners for the Jeffries fight.

[QueensburyRules]

He was at least familiar with how fighters stacked up against each other.

When Jeffries refused to fight Sam McVea, he stated that Jack Johnson was "a little fella" compared to Sam McVea, and Johnson beating him means that McVea shouldn't be considered for a shot....beyond him also stating he would refuse to fight any "colored fighter."

But it would take a lot more digging to know just how much he knew of Johnson.

- - McVea was 19 yrs old for JJ, 8-2 record. It's like U never made it to 16 yrs.

[GhostofDempsey]

Billy Delaney ( Jeffries old trainer for some of his championship fights ) had a falling out with Jeffries and in fact was hired by Jack Johnson to be in his corner! Advantage to Johnson as he knew Jeffries like a book. During their fight he barked out orders to Johnson..

Delaney pulled something similar on Corbett when he was training him. He brought Jeffries in as a new sparring partner for Corbett. After a couple of rounds Corbett told Jeff he was big, slow and muscle bound but had good power and a lot to learn yet. Jeffries would win a 10 round decision over Bob Armstrong who he later signed on as a sparring partner for Johnson. Armstrong was a large black HW who had sparred Johnson before. Delaney also trained Al Kaufman and was jockeying to get him a shot at Johnson in ‘09.

[travestyny]

- - McVea was 19 yrs old for JJ, 8-2 record. It's like U never made it to 16 yrs.

What's your point? Whether he was 19 or 29, Jeffries wasn't going anywhere near him. The offer was lucrative and Jeffries said no thanks


And nope, he wasn't 8-2. You can't get anything right, can you? Stay out the bottle, Queenie.

[Ivich]

Another man who shared a connection with the two was heavyweight Bob Armstrong. He was a B-rate large black HW who served as co-trainer and sparring partner for Johnson, Langford, Jeffries and several other top fighters of the day. He was hired by Jeffries as main sparring partner in preparation for his fight with Johnson. George Cotton would be one of Johnson’s main sparring partners for the Jeffries fight.

Cotton was a protege of Johnsons and Jack boosted him up to the press on several occasions.
Armstrong was a guy who looked terrific in the gym but not so great in actual fights.

[Ivich]

Delaney pulled something similar on Corbett when he was training him. He brought Jeffries in as a new sparring partner for Corbett. After a couple of rounds Corbett told Jeff he was big, slow and muscle bound but had good power and a lot to learn yet. Jeffries would win a 10 round decision over Bob Armstrong who he later signed on as a sparring partner for Johnson. Armstrong was a large black HW who had sparred Johnson before. Delaney also trained Al Kaufman and was jockeying to get him a shot at Johnson in ‘09.

Corbett knocked Jeffries down in sparring, there were three witnesses to it.
Delaney said fear beat Jeffries when he fought Johnson ,that he was afraid of Jack.

"No man can beat another man if he is afraid of him,and I know that Jeffries never cared for the idea of fighting Johnson,even when he was champion and Johnson was not so good as he is now."

"Johnson did not need any seconds today.He could have won without me or any of the others."

Armstrong was Jeffries sparring partner for the Johnson fight.
Johnson had Kaufman,Cotton , Mills.