Louis vs Charles

[Ivich]

I listed all cards because you did not. It proves my point and you purposely left them out and only included the few Louis won as if to slant things. Again all the wide cards are for Walcott. The vast majority the cards are for Walcott. The available video, which include the two knock downs shows Walcott is the better, Louis body language is the of loser, the crowed booed the decision loudly. And Louis said I'm sorry to Joe Walcott right after the decision was announced. It checks all the boxes for a bad decision and before you say Louis was too old at 34, Walcott was the same age. Face it, Louis lost.

Yeah he came form way behind in the re-match to knock Walcott out, but the stench of the first decision remains.

Donovan was Louis personal ref in 14+ fights and his score cards are crap, 14-1 for Louis over Farr? The judging was off in the Godoy fights too. Watch it some time, ESPN ran it and gave Godoy most of the rounds not shown. Godoy easily bulls Louis around the right, shows better defense, and clearly throws and lands more punches! No one lands a significant blow. How do you score such a fight? The 1930's had problems with fixes. Especially in Madison Square Garden where Louis fought multiple times. Did you know that?

I did not say Farr won, don't put words in my mouth, I said the scoring was off by Donovan!

Yeah Louis Ko's Conn in the first match. But it doesn't change the fact the Conn at 169 pounds,one pound within the super middle weight weigh limit at weight in, would have seen his arm raised if it was 12 rounds! When it ended Louis told Conn he had the World Heavyweight championship for 12 rounds, he just did now what to do with it.

The judging was fair in this fight. Donovan wasn't the ref!

• Referee: Eddie Joseph 7-5
• Judge: Marty Monroe 7-4
• Judge: Bill Healy 6-6

In closing Louis was outboxed by the best five men he fought in Schmeling , Conn, Wlacott, Charles, and Marciano and would have lost ALL matches in 12 rounds. He is considered a great boxer by some but he is not vs skilled sub 200 pound men. Only looks good vs the big men of the times who wouldn't be raked today, and if they were if would be for a brief amount of time. You wrote nothing that blows me out water, your battleship was sunk.

The truth must hurt. Facts can be stubborn things.

I didn't list all cards because my comment was that several well respected boxing writers including.
Dawson
Smith
Corum
Fleischer
Abramson
Parker
Voted for Louis thus demonstrating that a third of those reporters who saw the fight from ringside scored it for Louis.
Louis was upset that it was a such a bad fight thats why he said ."Im sorry".
Louis wasnt a great boxer?
Who won a decision from him before he retired?
Only Charles the champion outpointed him when he was 36 years old and had been retired for 2 years.

Donovan gave Godoy one more round than the other judge !
You havent seen the 1stGodoy fight and so are not qualified to comment on it!
Like wise you havent seen the complete Walcott fight, only highlights,so are similarly not qualified to offer an opinion on it.
Louis was only about 60% of what he had been before the War,he said himself his last fight in which he felt like himself was against Mauriello way back in 1946!

Donovan was based in NY and was considered the premier referee of his times ,like wise Louis fought inMSG and Yankee Stadium may times Why would he not?
Name another fight refereed by Donovan and involving Louis in which you think Donovan's scoring was off?

In other words prove your claims!
You've accused Louis of lying about the Walcott fight.
You've accused him of having corrupt judges and referees to protect him.
You've accused Arthur Donovan of being biased and corrupt in Louis' favour
And you've made these charges without a shred of evidence to support your charges.
You havent changed one iota!
Louis and Walcott were the same age but boxers age at different rates.Louis lost 4 years to the War,during that time period Walcott had 15 fights!
Louis beat good boxers like
Ramage
Pastor
Farr
None were huge men,only Farr over 200lbs
With the exception of southpaws Louis fought an assortment of styles ,cuties,stylists,swarmers,sluggers.
In 69 fights,over 17 years, he lost 3. 1 when he was pre prime and overconfident, one when he had been in retirement for 2 years and was 36 years old,and one when he was 37 years old.All 3 of the men that beat him held the title at some point.

[QueensburyRules]

That is relative, it was a decade in which;
So so fighters like .these were top ten ranked.
Oma no 8
Brion no7
Williams no10
****ell no2
Slade no10
Sys no 5
Dunlap no 4
Lastarza no2
Neuhaus no6
Norkus no9
Bucceroni no3
Ie a shallow talent pool in a soft era.That's another reason pre-war,older guys were still having success

- - And Joe was still a Ring Ranked, #5 as I recall...yer welcome

[Ivich]

- - And Joe was still a Ring Ranked, #5 as I recall...yer welcome

Ground Hog Day With Queensbury Fool. What a daunting prospect!

[Dr. Z]

I didn't list all cards because my comment was that several well respected boxing writers including.
Dawson
Smith
Corum
Fleischer
Abramson
Parker
Voted for Louis thus demonstrating that a third of those reporters who saw the fight from ringside scored it for Louis.
Louis was upset that it was a such a bad fight thats why he said ."Im sorry".
Louis wasnt a great boxer?
Who won a decision from him before he retired?
Only Charles the champion outpointed him when he was 36 years old and had been retired for 2 years.

Donovan gave Godoy one more round than the other judge !
You havent seen the 1stGodoy fight and so are not qualified to comment on it!
Like wise you havent seen the complete Walcott fight, only highlights,so are similarly not qualified to offer an opinion on it.
Louis was only about 60% of what he had been before the War,he said himself his last fight in which he felt like himself was against Mauriello way back in 1946!

Donovan was based in NY and was considered the premier referee of his times ,like wise Louis fought inMSG and Yankee Stadium may times Why would he not?
Name another fight refereed by Donovan and involving Louis in which you think Donovan's scoring was off?

In other words prove your claims!
You've accused Louis of lying about the Walcott fight.
You've accused him of having corrupt judges and referees to protect him.
You've accused Arthur Donovan of being biased and corrupt in Louis' favour
And you've made these charges without a shred of evidence to support your charges.
You havent changed one iota!
Louis and Walcott were the same age but boxers age at different rates.Louis lost 4 years to the War,during that time period Walcott had 15 fights!
Louis beat good boxers like
Ramage
Pastor
Farr
None were huge men,only Farr over 200lbs
With the exception of southpaws Louis fought an assortment of styles ,cuties,stylists,swarmers,sluggers.
In 69 fights,over 17 years, he lost 3. 1 when he was pre prime and overconfident, one when he had been in retirement for 2 years and was 36 years old,and one when he was 37 years old.All 3 of the men that beat him held the title at some point.

Yes. but you left out the majority of names who voted for Walcott. Walcott should have won the decision. You must be watching with a blind fold and wearing earmuffs. Walcott deserved over Louis but WAS ROBBED. Conn would have beaten him in 12 rounds too.

Donovan's scoring was off in the Godoy fight and yes the first fight can be viewed IF you know where to look. Godoy was the winner in the rounds shown.

Farr Louis beat fair in square but the judges cards were off, especially Donovans. I made my case for against Donovan is the Farr and Godoy fights. And did you knew he was supposed to be the ref for Louis vs Walcott one, but was kicked out when Walcott's camp made a stink of it? Yes it true. Louis mager was moved connected, A fact. And MSG had a real problem with fixed fights. Another fact. Donvovan was cosy with Louis. He wasn't needed in many fights that didn't go the distance the went the distance but fair juding on form him on the rounds shown. No sir. He had Louis barely down of points when he was getting his rear end kicked. If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will. Of course Louis on film delvers a mean low blow the round before he was knock out. Not that he had a point taken away form for doing it. I say Louis needed a break and took it from going low. One thing is for sure, no foreign born non -American would get good treatment form him in Louis fights.


No, Louis did not fight all styles. Aside from southpaws which he did not fight , did he beat any good big men who can jab? Which swarmer with power did he fight?That's three styles. I'll think of more. He didn't fight Max Robinson style either! Again the best 5 men he fought all beat him over 12 rounds, and 4 of the 5 beat him in 15 round contests aside form a bad decision. He is fortunate he did not fight under the ten point must system for the Walcott fight too.

Yeah I guess Farr was a shade over 200 pounds for Louis.

[Ivich]

Yes. but you left out the majority of names who voted for Walcott. Walcott should have won the decision. You must be watching with a blind fold and wearing earmuffs. Walcott deserved over Louis but WAS ROBBED. Conn would have beaten him in 12 rounds too.

Donovan's scoring was off in the Godoy fight and yes the first fight can be viewed IF you know where to look. Godoy was the winner in the rounds shown.

Farr Louis beat fair in square but the judges cards were off, especially Donovans. I made my case for against Donovan is the Farr and Godoy fights. And did you knew he was supposed to be the ref for Louis vs Walcott one, but was kicked out when Walcott's camp made a stink of it? Yes it true. Louis mager was moved connected, A fact. And MSG had a real problem with fixed fights. Another fact. Donvovan was cosy with Louis. He wasn't needed in many fights that didn't go the distance the went the distance but fair juding on form him on the rounds shown. No sir. He had Louis barely down of points when he was getting his rear end kicked. If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will. Of course Louis on film delvers a mean low blow the round before he was knock out. Not that he had a point taken away form for doing it. I say Louis needed a break and took it from going low. One thing is for sure, no foreign born non -American would get good treatment form him in Louis fights.


No, Louis did not fight all styles. Aside from southpaws which he did not fight , did he beat any good big men who can jab? Which swarmer with power did he fight?That's three styles. I'll think of more. He didn't fight Max Robinson style either! Again the best 5 men he fought all beat him over 12 rounds, and 4 of the 5 beat him in 15 round contests aside form a bad decision. He is fortunate he did not fight under the ten point must system for the Walcott fight too.

Yeah I guess Farr was a shade over 200 pounds for Louis.

[Dr. Z]

You already said that, and started a separate thread based off what I said here. Weak. Move the thread here. LOL, my facts and examples can't be countered by you. You don't answer my questions asked! Instead you hide what is not provable, and create a new thread. Does this bother you soon much that you have to do that?



I guess the data was too much. I may type more. You will find I am well read and have seen a lot. There are some things I haven't seen or read but I doubt they will be coming for you.

[Ivich]

You already said that, and started a separate thread based off what I said here. Weak. Move the thread here. LOL, my facts and examples can't be countered by you. You don't answer my questions asked! Instead you hide what is not provable, and create a new thread. Does this bother you soon much that you have to do that?



I guess the data was too much. I may type more. You will find I am well read and have seen a lot. There are some things I haven't seen or read but I doubt they will be coming for you.

Mendoza.

[Dr. Z]

- - And Joe was still a Ring Ranked, #5 as I recall...yer welcome

Where can I buy Ivich's book on how to win friends and influence people? I must read it! After all he had resorted to calling me names and posting signs.

As an FYI my poster name dates back to 2000 when the Cyber Boxing Zone was kicking but I don't recall any Ivich posting there. Or any where for that matter, Maybe he using a different name

[Ivich]

Where can I buy Ivich's book on how to win friends and influence people? I must read it! After all he had resorted to calling me names and posting signs.

As an FYI my poster name dates back to 2000 when the Cyber Boxing Zone was kicking but I don't recall any Ivich posting there. Or any where for that matter, Maybe he using a different name

Yes you were banned under that name and then banned under the name Mendoza.On Boxing 24.
You are as infectious as Monkey Pox, and about as welcome!