Tony Zale V **** Tiger?

[GhostofDempsey]

Tiger fought better opposition but he wasn't a huge puncher or KO artist. Both of them fought bigger men, Tiger coming out the better of the two with wins over Torres and Zale coming up short against Conn. After the Conn loss, Zale enlisted in the Navy and lost 4 years of his prime until the end of WWII. Head to head it's a competitive and very rough fight for both men. I would have to favor Tiger by UD or SD in a bloody fight.

[IronDanHamza]

Zale would probably make most top 15s at 160lbs.The idea that Tiger would simply brush him aside does not sit well with me,I think Tiger was the better man but its certainty not a given he could white wash Zale 10 times in a row,that statement smacks of agenda to me.

By “most” do you mean none? Because I have literally never seen Tony Zale in a Top 15 Middleweight list. Nor should he be.

Zale was a good fighter but far from a great one. Not even close to a Top 10 Middleweight like **** Tiger.

There is no comparison between these two fighters.

[The Old LefHook]

Why?

Are we acting like Tony Zale is some kind of all time great?

What makes you think he has any kind of chance with Tiger who’s superior in basically every area?

Are we acting like Tiger is some kind of all time great? I doubt he is an ATG. Tough fighter all right. But ATG? I don't believe I have ever seen him on a top list of middleweights or light heavies or a P4P list. He is right next to a nonentity in the middleweight division and too small to beat great light heavies. He is a guy that even Fullmer was able to hit with every jab and body shot he threw. He wouldn't even beat an entire handful of Hagler's opponents. Is Tiger even taking Mugabi? It is up for grabs. Is he taking Roldan? Razor close.

Tiger has some of the worst footwork I have ever seen. He is right there with Kenny Norton for footwork.

Let's see your middleweight laugh...I mean list.

[QueensburyRules]

- - IBRO

Middleweight Ratings 1. Harry Greb (609) 2. Ray Robinson (575) 3. Carlos Monzon (527) 4. Marvin Hagler (493) 5. Mickey Walker (448) 6. Stanley Ketchel (446) 7. Bob Fitzsimmons (377) 8. Bernard Hopkins (256) 9. Charley Burley (251) 10. Marcel Cerdan (248) 11. Jake LaMotta (223) 12. Tony Zale (206) 13. Tiger Flowers (202) 14. Sam Langford (195) 15. Roy Jones Jr. (170) 16. **** Tiger (168) 17. Ezzard Charles (148) 18. Mike Gibbons (137) 19. Freddie Steele (131) 20. Tommy Ryan (108)

[The Old LefHook]

Well, I might have to revise my opinion somewhat of Tiger as I watch more of him, and because he likes to fight so much. But besides losing to the top echelon, Tiger is vulnerable to slick boxers, like the soft-punching Giardello with whom he split four decisions. I hate having to admit that even the average-punching Ho'kins would spoil it up and likely beat **** by decision. And Tiger might never touch Mike Gibbons. Burley beats him too. I believe he loses to Robinson, Hagler and Monzon, and in addition Cerdan and possibly Holman Williams.

It looks like the discussion for Tiger as an AT middleweight might begin about 7--12 and above, with some really good competition still ahead, if he could edge out the likes of Roy Jones, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Stanley Ketchel, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Golovkin, Alvarez, spoiler Ho'kins, and Freddie Steele.

There is a revised and clarified opinion.

[The Old LefHook]

- - IBRO

Middleweight Ratings 1. Harry Greb (609) 2. Ray Robinson (575) 3. Carlos Monzon (527) 4. Marvin Hagler (493) 5. Mickey Walker (448) 6. Stanley Ketchel (446) 7. Bob Fitzsimmons (377) 8. Bernard Hopkins (256) 9. Charley Burley (251) 10. Marcel Cerdan (248) 11. Jake LaMotta (223) 12. Tony Zale (206) 13. Tiger Flowers (202) 14. Sam Langford (195) 15. Roy Jones Jr. (170) 16. **** Tiger (168) 17. Ezzard Charles (148) 18. Mike Gibbons (137) 19. Freddie Steele (131) 20. Tommy Ryan (108)

All the right names. Order is the big question for any list.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - IBRO

Middleweight Ratings 1. Harry Greb (609) 2. Ray Robinson (575) 3. Carlos Monzon (527) 4. Marvin Hagler (493) 5. Mickey Walker (448) 6. Stanley Ketchel (446) 7. Bob Fitzsimmons (377) 8. Bernard Hopkins (256) 9. Charley Burley (251) 10. Marcel Cerdan (248) 11. Jake LaMotta (223) 12. Tony Zale (206) 13. Tiger Flowers (202) 14. Sam Langford (195) 15. Roy Jones Jr. (170) 16. **** Tiger (168) 17. Ezzard Charles (148) 18. Mike Gibbons (137) 19. Freddie Steele (131) 20. Tommy Ryan (108)

Those rankings (numbers) come out of resumes?

Are Robinson's (and the others) numbers based on his (their) MW resume only ?

Should I assume the same measurement results in SRR as #1 WW?

I suspect Mike Gibbons belongs much higher.

Also Lefty mentioned Holman Williams. How does Burley get to #9 and Williams not in the top 20?

Me not sure like list.

[QueensburyRules]

Those rankings (numbers) come out of resumes?

Are Robinson's (and the others) numbers based on his (their) MW resume only ?

Should I assume the same measurement results in SRR as #1 WW?

I suspect Mike Gibbons belongs much higher.

Also Lefty mentioned Holman Williams. How does Burley get to #9 and Williams not in the top 20?

Me not sure like list.

- - Lists are beauty contests for fight fans.

Post Holman record and make his case. Never seen him mentioned on any all time list though rarities do exist.

[Ivich]

By “most” do you mean none? Because I have literally never seen Tony Zale in a Top 15 Middleweight list. Nor should he be.

Zale was a good fighter but far from a great one. Not even close to a Top 10 Middleweight like **** Tiger.

There is no comparison between these two fighters.

Well you have now, The Ring has him at number 9!

Ranking THE RING's 31 middleweight champions - The Ring (ringtv.com)

Fight City has him at number 12.

Top 12 Greatest Middleweights: Boxing's Best Ever At 160 (thefightcity.com)

Top 12 Greatest Middleweights: Boxing's Best Ever At 160 (thefightcity.com)

Ranker has him at no 4!
The Best Middleweight Boxers of All Time (ranker.com)

[IronDanHamza]

Well you have now, The Ring has him at number 9!

Ranking THE RING's 31 middleweight champions - The Ring (ringtv.com)

Fight City has him at number 12.

Top 12 Greatest Middleweights: Boxing's Best Ever At 160 (thefightcity.com)

Top 12 Greatest Middleweights: Boxing's Best Ever At 160 (thefightcity.com)

Ranker has him at no 4!
The Best Middleweight Boxers of All Time (ranker.com)

I’ve never heard of “Ranker” but considering they have Tommy Hearns at #6 it is obviously a totally ridiculous list.

The Ring’s list has Tiger ahead of him and he’s only on the other list because they’ve left out fighters who “weren’t prime” at 160 which is a ridiculous criteria.