Top Boxing Writer Ever?

[HOUDINI563]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31324389][QUOTE=HOUDINI563;n31324162]

Ignore the susposed eye witness accounts they are bogus.

The sky was overcast; it rained the day before and there was concern all morning the fight might be postponed because of it.

Willard is dressed on a sweater to keep the chill off and Johnson is bundled up to the neck.

Fans have their coats on with only a very few in shirt sleeves.

There was no blazing sun; but you got to love how JJ could sling the shlt; here we are still buying the BS that the sun cost him his title.

I disagree. Weather was overcast early but turned to full sun as the fight progressed. These are eye witness accounts. Humidity I am sure played a factor. No reason for a eye witness to refer to blazing sun when their was none.

Those days everyone dressed up for any event no matter the weather.

[HOUDINI563]

The bout did not begin until the afternoon. See this article. By 11:30 the sun broke through the clouds hotly.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19150405&id=x_kgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y3UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2367,4013527&hl=en

[Willie Pep 229]

[QUOTE=HOUDINI563;n31325422][QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31324389]

I disagree. Weather was overcast early but turned to full sun as the fight progressed. These are eye witness accounts. Humidity I am sure played a factor. No reason for a eye witness to refer to blazing sun when their was none.

Those days everyone dressed up for any event no matter the weather.

They all told stories about the blazing sun after Johnson returned to the US in 1920 and began to spread his lie about throwing the fight and its susposed relationship to heat.

Find sources claiming they were there and the blazing sun dated before 1920 and I'll reconsider.

Humidity certainly counts (I live in South Florida) but no humidity can turn mid 70s into a 100 plus day. Just doesn't happen.

[Willie Pep 229]

The bout did not begin until the afternoon. See this article. By 11:30 the sun broke through the clouds hotly.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,4013527&hl=en

Yea it says the sun broke through a heavily overcast day - how do you see that as a blazing hot sun?

It says heavily overcast - does not say that the sun was either blazing or hot.

???????

[The Old LefHook]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31325591][QUOTE=HOUDINI563;n31325422]

They all told stories about the blazing sun after Johnson returned to the US in 1920 and began to spread his lie about throwing the fight and its susposed relationship to heat.

Find sources claiming they were there and the blazing sun dated before 1920 and I'll reconsider.

Humidity certainly counts (I live in South Florida) but no humidity can turn mid 70s into a 100 plus day. Just doesn't happen.

It might feel like it happens though. I believe wind chill doesn't actually happen either, but is just how the condition feels to live meat, not what it does to dead meat. Dead meat behaves the same way at 10 degrees with or without wind. I only suspect it works that way. No proof offered. Sidetracked. Psychological perception of heat & cold. Also of time is somewhat studied. Time passes faster at work if you are busy instead of standing around intermittently waiting for something to do.

Now for a fact muggy days can be hard to breath in.

[Willie Pep 229]

[QUOTE=The Old LefHook;n31325689][QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31325591]

It might feel like it happens though. I believe wind chill doesn't actually happen either, but is just how the condition feels to live meat, not what it does to dead meat. Dead meat behaves the same way at 10 degrees with or without wind. I only suspect it works that way. No proof offered. Sidetracked. Psychological perception of heat & cold. Also of time is somewhat studied. Time passes faster at work if you are busy instead of standing around intermittently waiting for something to do.

Now for a fact muggy days can be hard to breath in.

Before I start running off at the mouth again, let me just say that I worked my way through college setting truss and running plywood sheathing in Miami. I know all about working in humidity.

I am challenging the reports of 101, 103, 105 degrees that exists all over the Internet(s) and are repeated by supposedly educated posters.

It just doesn't get that hot in Cuba during the first week of April.

I am challenging JJ's claim that he was shielding his eyes from the blazing sun and holding his legs up off the hot canvas as he laid on his back supposedly 'throwing the fight.'

Which of course we know is complete BS today, but because of the Sims Act no one in 1920 got to see the film, only that one infamous clip (frame) that Johnson built his BS story around.

So many people bought his BS that for decades people claimed it was over 100 dregrees.

Most notorious is Fleischer who claimed it was 103 degrees and that he was there to witness it.

The fact that he claimed it was that hot tells us he was no where near Havana in April 1915.

The lying old man told many self aggrandizing BS stories about his supposed expertise/experiences that it frustrates me when people use him as an appeal to authority and we are expected to make his nonsense stories part of the historical record. **

As I said before I live in Miami and I understand your point about humidity but no way does a sun breaking through an overcast sky in late afternoon drive the temperature from the mid 70s anywhere near 100 degrees.

You likely already know that humidity r etards the temperature not allowing the temperature to move dramatically up or down as it does in the desert. We, in Miami, have very few 100 degree days and that is in the dead of summer. Havana never goes to 100 degrees in early April. Ask a Cuban not a ****** old bull shlter.

OK I have gone on too much about this I will stop running my mouth about it. You guys can have the last word, let the legend continue; they say JJ could spin a great story and the old adage is 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story.'

** My anger with Fleischer goes to Clay-Liston II. That old man should have minded his own buisness and that fight should have continued. Liston should have gotten a count.

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31325780][QUOTE=The Old LefHook;n31325689]

Before I start running off at the mouth again, let me just say that I worked my way through college setting truss and running plywood sheathing in Miami. I know all about working in humidity.

I am challenging the reports of 101, 103, 105 degrees that exists all over the Internet(s) and are repeated by supposedly educated posters.

It just doesn't get that hot in Cuba during the first week of April.

I am challenging JJ's claim that he was shielding his eyes from the blazing sun and holding his legs up off the hot canvas as he laid on his back supposedly 'throwing the fight.'

Which of course we know is complete BS today, but because of the Sims Act no one in 1920 got to see the film, only that one infamous clip (frame) that Johnson built his BS story around.

So many people bought his BS that for decades people claimed it was over 100 dregrees.

Most notorious is Fleischer who claimed it was 103 degrees and that he was there to witness it.

The fact that he claimed it was that hot tells us he was no where near Havana in April 1915.

The lying old man told many self aggrandizing BS stories about his supposed expertise/experiences that it frustrates me when people use him as an appeal to authority and we are expected to make his nonsense stories part of the historical record. **

As I said before I live in Miami and I understand your point about humidity but no way does a sun breaking through an overcast sky in late afternoon drive the temperature from the mid 70s anywhere near 100 degrees.

You likely already know that humidity r etards the temperature not allowing the temperature to move dramatically up or down as it does in the desert. We, in Miami, have very few 100 degree days and that is in the dead of summer. Havana never goes to 100 degrees in early April. Ask a Cuban not a ****** old bull shlter.

OK I have gone on too much about this I will stop running my mouth about it. You guys can have the last word, let the legend continue; they say JJ could spin a great story and the old adage is 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story.'

** My anger with Fleischer goes to Clay-Liston II. That old man should have minded his own buisness and that fight should have continued. Liston should have gotten a count.

- - Heh, heh, ho, ho. No use being mealy mouthed about it!

Worked for years in the construction biz as a carpenter and grew up in Houston, perpetual 90% humidity. Walk outside from A/C to stand in the shade of a large tree and I'd be beading up in sweat inside a minute. I never wore a shirt in construction for that reason. I wanted a dry shirt so I wouldn't stink so bad when I'd pick up my beer from the super.

Anyway, long ago I posted the link from the National Weather bureau showing the temps at the tip of Florida 90 miles from Havana being in low 80s. Can you believe Cabeza de Vaca first claimed Florida for Spain ca the earliest recorded contact with North America with their men in armor on horses shaky after months at sea? All slowly picked off by Proto-Seminoles using 6' long bows with 3' flint tipped arrows that could run through a suit of armor. Call it the First Baked & Then Skewered Syndrome, an historic first for the record books.

My travel agent wife pregnant with our 2nd son and I and our first son a year old precocious toddler surprising quick on his feet took a freebie weekend to Jamaica. Me being prime years in excellent condition working on industrial rooftop metal sheeting at afternoon 110 degrees was just tossing a frisbee up so it would boomerang back to me, but having to chase it down to catch in the air by various breezes. Casual running in deep white sands stuff when Heat Prostration hit me like a ton of bricks. Mid 80s March weather just like Willard JJ. That gave me a healthy respect for the so called tropical effect I had previously disdained.

Point in fact at high noon with the thick canvas and padding absorbing all the solar energy, at ringside might have been 120 degrees. What with boxing being recorded in such a hamhanded fashion then and even today, we can never really know save that was an all time leaping right hand by the supposedly slow Titanic Cowboy that put JJ down so long that they had to carry him to his stool.

[HOUDINI563]

Yea it says the sun broke through a heavily overcast day - how do you see that as a blazing hot sun?

It says heavily overcast - does not say that the sun was either blazing or hot.

???????

”The sun began to beat down HOTLY and all danger of rain seemed to pass”

[HOUDINI563]

There is no doubt that it was overcast in the morning. However the bout started in the afternoon and it was full sun the entire bout. Fighting in a ring under full sun on a off white canvas could cause extreme heat condition in the ring as the sun and heat reflects from the canvas. There are too many eye witness accounts to believe otherwise. It is well understood that Johnson was legitimately koed by Willard. Johnson’s claim he threw the fight has been debunked for many decades.

Fleischer devoted an entire chapter of his book 50 years at Ringside to his first hand accounts of this fight. He covered PREDOMINANTLY Willard for the newspaper he was working for and provides details. Why would he risk being called a liar by Willard and I am sure many others by claiming he was at a bout and interacting with a combatant who was alive and kicking when the book was published?