Jack Dempsey vs Jack Johnson 1921 Debunked

[ShoulderRoll]

I thought this had already been conclusively debunked. Are people still trying to pretend it wasn't just a writer's flight of fancy?

[Marchegiano]

I thought this had already been conclusively debunked. Are people still trying to pretend it wasn't just a writer's flight of fancy?

Yes, this is just a consolidation thread. I had sent someone to find the original, they told me search wouldn't bring it up, so I made a new one based off the original. Then talked **** at Willie for being a ****.

[The Old LefHook]

Thanks, lads. I have now drawn the single name from a hat and produced a winner. And the winner is:

Queensbree.

Now, I must elicit a public promise from Queensbree to never pass the tape (now disk) to anyone, before sending him the document to sign. This will take a while. But if Queensbree agrees and signs, you boys will soon have your proof, as he can attest to the disk's authenticity..

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes, this is just a consolidation thread. I had sent someone to find the original, they told me search wouldn't bring it up, so I made a new one based off the original. Then talked **** at Willie for being a ****.

And Willie the **** said . . proving a fight didn't occur is doable . . . The problem with you is that you are bias against all white fighters during the color line era. You have a predisposed prejudice against white fighters and it brings all your research into question. It is ashame that you do such extensive research only to have it all be qualified by your inability to see that era with clear eyes.

[Willie Pep 229]

Thanks, lads. I have now drawn the single name from a hat and produced a winner. And the winner is:

Queensbree.

Now, I must elicit a public promise from Queensbree to never pass the tape (now disk) to anyone, before sending him the document to sign. This will take a while. But if Queensbree agrees and signs, you boys will soon have your proof, as he can attest to the disk's authenticity..

Here's a what if . . . What if the fight did occur (and was bootlegged filmed) . . . Ray Pearson was present and wrote about it . . . The powers to be came down on him . . . To cover his misdeed (and recognizing the article was popular) he then claimed it to be part of a series of fictional fights he would (and then did) write about.

Maybe that one fight did occur and the rest was just denial upon denial.

One history argues that Johnson and Dempsey denied the fight happened because they thought the tax people would come after them. Later in life Dempsey stopped giving a definitive answer, either way, to the question.

I am excited give us conformation.

[markusmod]

I am excited give us conformation.

I'm hoping as well.

[Marchegiano]

And Willie the **** said . . proving a fight didn't occur is doable . . . The problem with you is that you are bias against all white fighters during the color line era. You have a predisposed prejudice against white fighters and it brings all your research into question. It is ashame that you do such extensive research only to have it all be qualified by your inability to see that era with clear eyes.

But I never used colorline to criticize Billy. So, yer just being a ****, ****. Might better explain why I'm not so impressed with Dempsey if you recognize I don't think Billy was very good regardless of racial issues. Could at least speak to me in a manner that makes sense.

You know, rather than crying about colorline.


Honestly, I'm proud to have stuck with you like that. It's like I tore Dempsey, Greb, and Tunney so deeply I scared you or some **** and now I'm defending against some racial charge on a subject I didn't ever speak to race on. Billy Miske is not good enough to be criticized like as if his name was Jack Dempsey. Jack Dempsey is not **** enough to be criticized like as if his name were Miske.

I know you're not too ****** to follow that and respond in a way that makes sense.


Too emotional? Maybe, ya are a **** after all.

[Willie Pep 229]

But I never used colorline to criticize Billy. So, yer just being a ****, ****. Might better explain why I'm not so impressed with Dempsey if you recognize I don't think Billy was very good regardless of racial issues. Could at least speak to me in a manner that makes sense.

You know, rather than crying about colorline.


Honestly, I'm proud to have stuck with you like that. It's like I tore Dempsey, Greb, and Tunney so deeply I scared you or some **** and now I'm defending against some racial charge on a subject I didn't ever speak to race on. Billy Miske is not good enough to be criticized like as if his name was Jack Dempsey. Jack Dempsey is not **** enough to be criticized like as if his name were Miske.

I know you're not too ****** to follow that and respond in a way that makes sense.


Too emotional? Maybe, ya are a **** after all.

You have in the past on several occasions stated that these fighters were to you suspect because they didn't fight the available Black talent and you also criticized them for little to no international competition.

Both are legit complaints but should not deter a just evaluation of the fighters in question. In short you didn't need to make a racial statement for your bias to show.

Miske is the perfect foil for us to disagree on.

There us just enough argument for us to make both sides of the argument, but all you did was call him "shlt" - this is where I stated that you have to bring more to the table if you are going to claim historical interpretation.

I have an affection for Dempsey but unlike you I guard against my bias when I think and write about him. Maybe I fail in that effort but the first step to clear sight is recognizing and admitting to your own biases. You don't, you suffer from the great American malady, you think your right.

History isn't math, there are no right or wrong answers, just interpretation and opinion.

Miske is in the HOF, he fought for the title, had 90 fights, more than a dozen recognizable names on his resume, and stopped only once in 90 fights (by Jack Dempsey) and all you had to say was he is shlt!

I think you're right your real 'target' is Dempsey.

[Marchegiano]

You have in the past on several occasions stated that these fighters were to you suspect because they didn't fight the available Black talent and you also criticized them for little to no international competition.

Both are legit complaints but should not deter a just evaluation of the fighters in question. In short you didn't need to make a racial statement for your bias to show.

Miske is the perfect foil for us to disagree on.

There us just enough argument for us to make both sides of the argument, but all you did was call him "shlt" - this is where I stated that you have to bring more to the table if you are going to claim historical interpretation.

I have an affection for Dempsey but unlike you I guard against my bias when I think and write about him. Maybe I fail in that effort but the first step to clear sight is recognizing and admitting to your own biases. You don't, you suffer from the great American malady, you think your right.

History isn't math, there are no right or wrong answers, just interpretation and opinion.

Miske is in the HOF, he fought for the title, had 90 fights, more than a dozen recognizable names on his resume, and stopped only once in 90 fights (by Jack Dempsey) and all you had to say was he is shlt!

I think you're right your real 'target' is Dempsey.

Yeah but Billy ain't them fool.

I've not been given much chance to elaborate because all I've had to chance to do is defend against the idea I give any ****s about Billy vs Blacks.

You've seen me post on Norfolk. You think I missed the name? I'm aware Billy fought the black men Dempsey ducked. I have no issue with him and the colorline. My issue with him is he's done nothing special.

Billy doesn't actually have 90+ wins does he? As we all know, Miske's entire resume fringes on acknowledging newspaper awards.

Harry Matthews is a man with 90+ real victories officially recorded, and, like Billy exchanged wins with a decent fella of over 140 victories. Again, except these are official, real, victories, not awards handed out by publications.

I don't see Harry as an ATG, do not mistake me. I see him as an average contender....just like Billy, IF, I acknowledge Billy's newspaper awards as equal to official wins. Which is a slippery slope, because once you do that now and I will hold you to it when the subject is Dempsey vs a Black Man.

Or to say that differently, If I saw Billy's full resume as legitimate I'd make him about equal to Harry, decent win for the champ and nothing else.

That's a big if, imo, because when I do give guys of the era **** for ducking black men I got told but nws does not count doe. So if they count for ol Bil bet yer ass I'm bringing them back to Dempsey-Norfolk.

That said, Billy Miske actually has something like 40 real wins with a few losses...or, a very basic contender's resume. That's his real, official, record.


At best a good contender

At worst just a run-of-the-mil contender

Ain't no ****ing ATG there and that's why no one claims it....except a random **** online because that's the nature of the internet.





HOF ain't ****, fools in the HOF ain't even famous. I didn't check who's in or who is similar, because, 0 ****s to give there.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Only thing the OP debunked thus far is his own credibility.