Did Liston really have a shoulder injury vs Clay? Or a No Mas?

[Willie Pep 229]

Yeah, maf related stuff we all know.

Interesting that no one has commented on my specific points. Clay was not showing eye difficulty until he sat down and got his face wiped with the towel. I can't see it, but it seems to be Dundee right there. And perhaps some NOI people there such as Malcom X noted that too which is why they wanted to go after Dundee.

Be nice if people commenting rewatched the end of Rd 4 and just when Clay started to show eye problems. When DBB put it in is eye he seems to immediately react.

So why didn't Clay react in that in previous Rd when he was interacting with Liston? Instead it appears to be only after getting his face toweled.

The substance is bothering Ali when he sits down but when Dundee wipes his face the water unintentionaly washes the substance across his both eyes, he yells out and is temporarily blinded.

When he comes back to the corner he already had the substance in his eye, the water aggravated it.

Dundee would say many years later that once the round started he took some of the water and wiped his own eyes with it in front of the ******s because he was scared they might believe he double crossed Ali.

But Dundee loved to tell stories; I don't believe he would ever have doubled crossed Ali. There seemed a true affection between the men.

[Willie Pep 229]

If Liston was in the tank for fight I - why would he be winging knock out blows at Clay in the first three rounds? Why would he have tried to chase down Clay in round four?

What if he had caught him blinded? The ref would have likely stopped the fight and the fix would have been screwed up.

Liston in the tank makes no sense when you compare that logic to how he fought the first five rounds. Any one of his power blows couid have ended the fight and messed up the whole supposed fix.

The suspose fix IMHO is just gansters trying to gain 'street cred' by claiming they had the clot to tank a HW championship fight. They didn't.

The two men who could have actually pulled off such a fix, Frankie Carbo and Blinkly Palmero both went to.prison in 1960.

There must be 10 different gangsters who swear they invented college basketball points shaving. Gangsters love to take credit for things that can't be disproved, or proved.

No fix; it was a 'no mas.'

[QueensburyRules]

The two men who could have actually pulled off such a fix, Frankie Carbo and Blinkly Palmero both went to.prison in 1960.

No fix; it was a 'no mas.'

- -Nature abhors a vacuum. Plenty of up and coming lieutenants vying to take their place.

End of the day, neither fix nor no mas can be proven, but what is factual was Liston was found dead under mysterious circumstances days before he was due to be grilled by Congress.

And as the saying goes, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas...R.I.P.