What factors do you consider when determining a fighter’s greatness?

[QueensburyRules]

Well the first thing that comes to mind... You have a much greater view over the horizon than most... Sometime Im guessing during the Hellanistic times in Greece, a time when because of Alexander the great, Aristotle's pupil... gave the world the form and substance of Hellinistic thinking, sports that emphasized the glory of the individual, over military matters, etc came to be. I might be mistaken and perhaps this idea extended even earlier than Hellinistic philosophy... My sources are Arvantis and You! So if this is wrong let me know.

But what matters is that you have the long road view and can see different ways to designate different epoches in a truly well researched way. My thinking would be as long as these designations are consistent, make sense, and can stand up to hard evidence they are useful. One could do it like the Japanese do the old ways, the newer old ways, and modern ways, each with a book designating who is in. Or, the ancient way, also used in Japan, and so many of the ancient religions... one could have a tree with branches. So, for example, Black fighters and their traditions could be a separate branch, until united/reunited back... this would allow for people to see an arrangement that did not designate "better" etc. For example, if I have a family tree for Kukishin Den Ryu... at some point Yoshin Ryu combines with it, then they separate again... there is no indication of superiority, inferiority to speak of.

But when comparing, and noting changes, etc what we do need are people who can explain differences. Like why a boxing style from a certain time looked as it did. What expert technique looked like and why. Then things can be contrasted correctly. As far as ratings, belts, organizations... these things are existential in nature... they have the credibility we give them and little else. Like Charlie Z's belt lol... It is ridiculous but it is a valuable lesson in how silly people become when it comes to "belts, trinkets, etc..." In Ancient Aztec times when you won you didn't need no trinket! you were sacrificed to the Gods!! lol...

I guess this is why I like the lineal so much. it is what it is... and by not needing a belt, or anything other than the common man's knowledge it becomes iconic with no trinkets needed. But this is alas a cop out on my part... You and a few others have looked carefully at what these different groups do to fit into a logical frame of reference for the sport... And this is a wonderful undertaking that bares fruit when done properly.

- -Did Kerouac or Ginsburg write that celestial nonsuch?

[REDEEMER]

He did tell you..Terrell had size and chin over Vlad. Williams was shaken, Vlad was knocked cold by Brewster and Sanders...

Terrell had size and chin over Vlad is a lie he was near 210 in his prime and that’s not being better in the ring that’s not a skill , you’re even a head case in here . You actually think Terrell is better then Klitschko,please post that in the NSB section and use Klitschko was stopped by Brewster as the reason and ignore Terrell didn’t carry much power vs one of the hardest hitting heavys of all time you can’t even stop lying about the actual fights ,

Wlad knocked out cold ? Pinocchio strikes in the history section now .

[Willie Pep 229]

Terrell had size and chin over Vlad is a lie he was near 210 in his prime and that’s not being better in the ring that’s not a skill , you’re even a head case in here . You actually think Terrell is better then Klitschko,please post that in the NSB section .

Why do you believe that posters in NSB would have better insight to fighters from 20 and 60 years past? They haven't spent the time researching past fighters the way billeau2 has.

They spent much of this week talking about Logan Paul.

I hold no opinion regarding the argument but dispute your suggested board of judgment
.

[REDEEMER]

Why do you believe that posters in NSB would have better insight to fighters from 20 and 60 years past? They haven't spent the time researching past fighters the way billeau2 has.

They spent much of this week talking about Logan Paul.

I hold no opinion regarding the argument but dispute your suggested board of judgment
.

You realize I just put forth an actual legitimate points ,he has told me Terrell was bigger and so forth which weren’t true . If he’s your researcher on here good luck with that because he’s a huge liar in the NSB section, who knows what he gets away with in this one then again I’m starting to think you guys love lying it’s why he does it over there, I’m sure not even Billy boy is crazy enough to tell the forum how Terrell is better then Klitschko but I wouldn’t put it past him lol .

[Noelanthony]

I like knockouts . . . two reasons

. . . (usually) puts the fight beyond corruption

. . . the game is prize fighting and boxing shouldn't be an end unto itself

KOs are recognized; decisions are third party exclamations of greatness.

Knockouts are the definitive end of a prize fight and the more definitive wins a fighter has the greater he is. Decision wins seem somehow incomplete. Decision wins leave doubt and greatness shouldn't be something that can be doubted.

We are talking of 'greatness' and not who is the GOAT?

Then Deontay Wilder could be one of the greatest boxers to grace this earth

[billeau2]

Terrell had size and chin over Vlad is a lie he was near 210 in his prime and that’s not being better in the ring that’s not a skill , you’re even a head case in here . You actually think Terrell is better then Klitschko,please post that in the NSB section and use Klitschko was stopped by Brewster as the reason and ignore Terrell didn’t carry much power vs one of the hardest hitting heavys of all time you can’t even stop lying about the actual fights ,

Wlad knocked out cold ? Pinocchio strikes in the history section now .

Never said better, Ghost gave you reasons why Terrell had some common features with Klitsko regarding size... can you read? Oh never mind, you cannot... Yup knocked out cold... and yet you think a fighter KO'ed by Sanders and Brewster is beyond comparison with a fighter who fought in an era where fighters had a lot of skills that can be observed on tape. You have no credibility in any section here laughing stock LOL... Your only here because I baited you over here so I could kick you around Lol. I told you to "stay out of here" knowing I would get you back in here so I don't have to search through NSB to find your BS... thank you! Bwahhaaaa!

[Willie Pep 229]

Then Deontay Wilder could be one of the greatest boxers to grace this earth

Could of, should of, would of, but that label slipped away when Fury got up and he couldn't put him down again. So . . . No!

[billeau2]

You realize I just put forth an actual legitimate points ,he has told me Terrell was bigger and so forth which weren’t true . If he’s your researcher on here good luck with that because he’s a huge liar in the NSB section, who knows what he gets away with in this one then again I’m starting to think you guys love lying it’s why he does it over there, I’m sure not even Billy boy is crazy enough to tell the forum how Terrell is better then Klitschko but I wouldn’t put it past him lol .

Legitimate? According to who? I never told you Terrell was bigger, I agreed with Ghost that Terrell presented a good comparable (to use a real estate term) to Vlad in terms of size..and that Terrell had a good chin.

Redeemer has a lot of grief because Shoulder Roll forced him off the forums. Redeemer was going around calling other posters ****** telling everyone how AJ versus Fury was a done deal...Well...he does this many times and is ALWAYS wrong. But this time? it caught up to him...he had to "leave for a while" hoping that things blew over lol. He even lied about going on vacation lol...

I go after him because I cannot stand trolls that belittle the opinions of others. This idiot constantly is telling people they are ******, wrong, when he is a dunce. He was telling people about "contracts" giving false information (as usual) and did not even know what the technical term (consideration) was regarding parts of a contract. Hope that explains this half wits game... he is pure poison. disagreeing with others can be done in a considerate way without belittling other posters...

[billeau2]

- -Did Kerouac or Ginsburg write that celestial nonsuch?

Who is your alt? the Indian guy? Poor Queenie been taking it on the chin since Poet came back and set him straight...

[Willie Pep 229]

Then Deontay Wilder could be one of the greatest boxers to grace this earth

I want to extrapolate on my reply.

Think about legacies . . . What if Fury doesn't get up; one punch and how much does Wilder's legacy change?

What if Marciano had won the first Walcott fight by TKO instead of a legendary right hand; what if Wslcott is stopped on his feet and not d****d over the bottom rope, would the absence of that one punch change the legacy of his power?