Is Duran the greatest fighter still alive today?

[DeeMoney]

I see this already becoming the apples to oranges argument that so many devolve into. Does greatest mean most career accomplishments, or does greatest mean highest in ring ability level (in a p4p sense)?

Manny will have more and varied accomplishments than Floyd, but I feel the best version of Floyd was better (P4P) than the best version of Manny. Two different criteria.

[DeeMoney]

Using that logic, you give Hearns and Benitez a shout since they beat prime Duran. Yet Duran still ranks higher that either of them.

Duran was over 30, past 70 pro fights, and multiple weight classes up from his best weight when he fought Benitez, and more so when he fought Hearns. While I get your general premise, I feel that the specific case you use is a bit off, as Duran was not prime.

[GhostofDempsey]

Duran was over 30, past 70 pro fights, and multiple weight classes up from his best weight when he fought Benitez, and more so when he fought Hearns. While I get your general premise, I feel that the specific case you use is a bit off, as Duran was not prime.

Duran was certainly as close to his prime as ever when he fought both Benitez and Hearns. After Benitez he beat Cuevas and Moore, almost beat Hagler. After Hearns KO he goes on to win MW title from Barkley.

Manny was further removed from his best than Floyd was. Manny’s shoulder injury which was exasperated during fourth round. Manny had 17 more fights than Floyd, which ages a fighter well beyond just the two birthdays Floyd had on him.

[GhostofDempsey]

I see this already becoming the apples to oranges argument that so many devolve into. Does greatest mean most career accomplishments, or does greatest mean highest in ring ability level (in a p4p sense)?

Manny will have more and varied accomplishments than Floyd, but I feel the best version of Floyd was better (P4P) than the best version of Manny. Two different criteria.

Except Floyd never fought an elite level fighter at their best. No comparison.

[DeeMoney]

Except Floyd never fought an elite level fighter at their best. No comparison.

But thats the point I am making, you could clearly argue that Manny had a better resume- but you could also argue that Floyd at his best was better than Manny at his best. Two different arguments

[QueensburyRules]

But thats the point I am making, you could clearly argue that Manny had a better resume- but you could also argue that Floyd at his best was better than Manny at his best. Two different arguments

- -Ring p4p stats show Manny vastly superior to everyone since the ratings were introduced in the mid 80s with 21 year old Tyson the debut #1. Manny has been the away fighter for half his career that often included international stints.

Sissyboy Junior camped out in his back yard the latter half of his career. The only argument is with sissyboy fans who lack analytical skills to end up making emotional decisions not based on full record and results. How they howled when Junior could only manage a MD vs 23 year old weight drained Canelo.

[GhostofDempsey]

But thats the point I am making, you could clearly argue that Manny had a better resume- but you could also argue that Floyd at his best was better than Manny at his best. Two different arguments

I don’t believe that, especially since Floyd admits he stalled the fight for years. He claims he knew it would be a bigger PPV but it was actually him waiting for Manny to get some battle fatigue and slow down a step.

[DeeMoney]

- -Ring p4p stats show Manny vastly superior to everyone since the ratings were introduced in the mid 80s with 21 year old Tyson the debut #1. Manny has been the away fighter for half his career that often included international stints.

Sissyboy Junior camped out in his back yard the latter half of his career. The only argument is with sissyboy fans who lack analytical skills to end up making emotional decisions not based on full record and results. How they howled when Junior could only manage a MD vs 23 year old weight drained Canelo.

Once again, this just kinda shows my point: citing the Canelo fight; because nobody would argue that wrong side of 35, multiple classes up from his best, Floyd was prime. To argue that this shows him in his prime was worse further exemplifies what I have been writing. But I'll tell you what, I'll remove Floyd as the example, because he clearly causes people to get overly biased in their argument- enough to cite the Canelo fight as Floyd barely getting a MD when most people saw it as a near shutout and further evidence of Canelo getting favorable cards.

Lets just write that 'Fighter A' had a longer career of more accomplishments than 'Fighter B', compiling more success and accolades. But at their peaks, 'Fighter B' was better than 'Fighter A', he just didnt carry it into older years or do as much.

Either criteria is acceptable for arguing who is better, greater, etc. And as such, as was my initial point, you can get people arguing either sider making it an apples to oranges discussion.

[travestyny]

I don’t believe that, especially since Floyd admits he stalled the fight for years. He claims he knew it would be a bigger PPV but it was actually him waiting for Manny to get some battle fatigue and slow down a step.

What happened when he signed that contract for the initial fight. If I remember correctly, you claimed Kevin Iole was lying when he said he saw the contract. You think Pacquiao really needed 24 days to recover from giving less than 2 tbsps of blood? Signing the contract and offering a 14 day cutoff doesn't sound like stalling to me.

[GhostofDempsey]

What happened when he signed that contract for the initial fight. If I remember correctly, you claimed Kevin Iole was lying when he said he saw the contract. You think Pacquiao really needed 24 days to recover from giving less than 2 tbsps of blood? Signing the contract and offering a 14 day cutoff doesn't sound like stalling to me.

Iole never produced a copy of that contract. Schaefer said he never saw such a contract.

You can hijack another thread with another Vietnam war of attrition, but once Manny agreed to testing, Floyd countered with endless excuses and goal post moving to delay that fight.