Louis-Ali, another argument

[JAB5239]

Just watched the Ali-Folley fight and watch Louis-Conn last night. I've always thought Louis was capable of beating Ali (and vice versa) but now I am even more convinced of it.

People like to point out the Conn fight as to why Ali would beat Louis, but this doesn't automatically make it so. First off, Conn used a body attack to bring Joes guard down. Ali RARELY went to the body as is evident yet again against Folley. Second, Folley wasn't able to slow Ali down because he was to slow to get off any combonations and break his guy down. Even against Conn, Louis was doing the work to allow him to catch up with Billy later in the fight. Ali was great, but no fighter is coming into Louis' range and not getting some wear and tear put on him.

Alib was great and I have no doubt he could beat Louis too. But to those who think Joe doesn't have a chance.....you're kidding yourself.

[Stoppage]

Louis has a chance at defeating Ali. Henry Cooper nearly knocked Ali out and if Cooper can do that, I'm sure Louis can do that.

Louis was a master at feinting and then attacking you with dynamite punches. I'll give Ali the edge on speed but Louis was definitely the better puncher. If Louis can catch Ali on the jaw with one of his punches, I wouldn't be shocked if Ali went down.

In the end, this fight can go either way. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

[right_hand_lead]

Louis has a chance at defeating Ali. Henry Cooper nearly knocked Ali out and if Cooper can do that, I'm sure Louis can do that.

Louis was a master at feinting and then attacking you with dynamite punches. I'll give Ali the edge on speed but Louis was definitely the better puncher. If Louis can catch Ali on the jaw with one of his punches, I wouldn't be shocked if Ali went down.

In the end, this fight can go either way. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Maybe a 1963 Ali would get knocked down, but a '67 or 70s Ali could take a punch better than almost anyone...from people who hit harder than Louis.

Logic dictates Ali by decision or maybe a late stoppage.

[TheGreatA]

Maybe a 1963 Ali would get knocked down, but a '67 or 70s Ali could take a punch better than almost anyone...from people who hit harder than Louis.

Logic dictates Ali by decision or maybe a late stoppage.

I wouldn't say that any of them were necessarily better punchers than Louis though.

Louis knew perfectly well how to go to the body, how to counter punch and how to finish an opponent off. Can you imagine Ali's legs going to jelly against Louis as they did against Shavers and Frazier (the first fight)? Louis would have surely done better to take advantage of that which is why I wouldn't count him out in any match-up.

[boxingbuff]

I wouldn't say that any of them were necessarily better punchers than Louis though.

Louis knew perfectly well how to go to the body, how to counter punch and how to finish an opponent off. Can you imagine Ali's legs going to jelly against Louis as they did against Shavers and Frazier (the first fight)? Louis would have surely done better to take advantage of that which is why I wouldn't count him out in any match-up.

I agree with you,but who do YOU think would win?

[BattlingNelson]

Just watched the Ali-Folley fight and watch Louis-Conn last night. I've always thought Louis was capable of beating Ali (and vice versa) but now I am even more convinced of it.

People like to point out the Conn fight as to why Ali would beat Louis, but this doesn't automatically make it so. First off, Conn used a body attack to bring Joes guard down. Ali RARELY went to the body as is evident yet again against Folley. Second, Folley wasn't able to slow Ali down because he was to slow to get off any combonations and break his guy down. Even against Conn, Louis was doing the work to allow him to catch up with Billy later in the fight. Ali was great, but no fighter is coming into Louis' range and not getting some wear and tear put on him.

Alib was great and I have no doubt he could beat Louis too. But to those who think Joe doesn't have a chance.....you're kidding yourself.

You can also look at the first Schmeling fight to see why Ali would have a good shot at beating Louis. In that fight, as well as in others, Louis was a sucker for the right hand. Ali's straight right was one of the fastest and most precise in boxing history, so it's easy to see Ali having success with the right hand.

Also Louis was slow compared to Ali (who isn't?) so that's another argument for Muhammad.

[right_hand_lead]

[QUOTE=TheGreatA;5996487]I wouldn't say that any of them were necessarily better punchers than Louis though.

Louis knew perfectly well how to go to the body, how to counter punch and how to finish an opponent off. Can you imagine Ali's legs going to jelly against Louis as they did against Shavers and Frazier (the first fight)? Louis would have surely done better to take advantage of that which is why I wouldn't count him out in any match-up.[/QUOTE]

Of course I wouldn't count him out, but the likelihood that Ali would win seems fairly high.:wank:

[Southpaw16BF]

I to find that to many people judge how a fight between Louis and Ali would of went, by soley watching Louis vs Conn 1. But they never seem to mention how some thought the capable but limted Doug Jones was robbed out of a victory against Clay, or how the left hook of Henry Cooper nearly knocked out Clay. So off them Clay fights, a arugment could be easily made of imagine what Louis would of done to Ali.

Conn used a clever gameplan against Louis for 13 rounds, using his speed of foot and hand, using faints and body attacks to open Louis up, but for the majority of the fight Louis was always in it.

To make a prediction of how a fight would of played out between Ali and Louis, you would have to look at more than just one fight.

[JAB5239]

You can also look at the first Schmeling fight to see why Ali would have a good shot at beating Louis. In that fight, as well as in others, Louis was a sucker for the right hand. Ali's straight right was one of the fastest and most precise in boxing history, so it's easy to see Ali having success with the right hand.

Whats up my friend?

I base my match ups on the best or around the best versions of the fighters. The first Schmeling fight wouldn't be a version of Louis I would use for a number of reasons. That said....I can still see Ali having success with the right, I just think he has to pay for it more than he did against any other fighter.

Also Louis was slow compared to Ali (who isn't?) so that's another argument for Muhammad.

Joe's handspeed would have been better than anybody ali fought with the possible exception of Patterson.

Im not trying to say Joe would always win this match up, but I do see scenerios where Louis could win and believe there would have been a realistc chance of it happening.

[Southpaw16BF]

You can also look at the first Schmeling fight to see why Ali would have a good shot at beating Louis. In that fight, as well as in others, Louis was a sucker for the right hand. Ali's straight right was one of the fastest and most precise in boxing history, so it's easy to see Ali having success with the right hand.

Also Louis was slow compared to Ali (who isn't?) so that's another argument for Muhammad.

But then you could say look at how Ali was dropped by the limted Sonny Banks, nearly knocked out against Henry Cooper and struggled with Doug Jones. Both fighter's weakness's can play into each other's hands, but I always get the impressions that when a Louis/Ali fight topic get brought up, the majority only talk about Louis's weakness's. Here I feel are both fighters weakness's.

Ali Weakness.........
An arm puncher who seldom put full weight behind his blows, he neglected body punching and his in fighting was restricted to hooking his glove around his opponet's neck. On his way up he was dropped by Sonny Banks, and Henry Cooper, he was temporarily befuddled by Karl Mildenberger's southpaw style. Emanuel Steward once said '' Ali had problems with physically strong guys who were not itimidated by him like Ken Norton.

Louis's Weakness..........
Louis struggled with speed (Billy Conn), unpredictability (Aturo Godoy), and cuteness (Jersey Joe Walcott). Louis was dropped 10 times and was twice stopped by smaller men. Both Tony Galento and Rocky Marciano dropped him with hooks. Jack Johnson said Louis ''was a slow footed manufactured boxer and a sucker for the right ''Marked Mechanical flaws and not a very bright boy''. Gene Tunney said in 1938 ''Louis still dosent roll with a punch''