Hagler Vs Leonard Was Not A Close Fight

[JAB5239]

- -No, but CompuFraud has the Franchise for tallying majic numbers for modern day jellies to spread on their muffins.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Are you counting the punches yourself or is there another analytical system to compare the stats?

[Willie Pep 229]

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Are you counting the punches yourself or is there another analytical system to compare the stats?

I think he is saying (and that's always dangerous with Queenie) is that counting punches isn't the way to measure a fight and that the newbies who use it are clueless about what they ae watching.

Of course that may not be what he is saying but it is what I think about counting punches.

Counting punches is for the fans who say very ****** things like " he's scoring points."

Points! Thete ae no "points" in a prize fight there are two men trying to knock each other unconscious.

I watched the Marciano-Walcott fight recently. Dan Dunphy calling the fight, once, in the 8th round commented that Walcott was likely ahead with the judges. He said it ONCE in 13 rounds. He never once used the ridiculous phrase "scoring points" he was busy calling a prize fight not counting 'points.'

Taylor out punched Chavez in every round and Chevez beat Taylor a slow death and finished his career (for all intent and purpose).

Compubox is crap for casual fight fans who want to pretend prize fighting is an athletic competition. It's not! No points, just men and pain.

[The Old LefHook]

Hagler was clearly out boxed . . . not beaten. They never got around to fighting it seems to have slipped both their minds. I still want my money back what a dog of a fight. One guy refused to stand and fight and the other guy pointlessly followed him around.

That is what they call 'had his ass handed to him' in boxing. Hagler is lucky that anyone on the planet thought he won a single round. I am no Leonard fan, but right is right and wrong is wrong. You are wrong as much as you are right, I have noticed.

[Willie Pep 229]

That is what they call 'had his ass handed to him' in boxing. Hagler is lucky that anyone on the planet thought he won a single round. I am no Leonard fan, but right is right and wrong is wrong. You are wrong as much as you are right, I have noticed.

You thought Hagler looked like a 'beaten' man after that fight?

I get it Leonard won the fight and I even agree ( I remember thinking at the time, Hagler, maybe won three rounds) that SR dominated the boxing.

Where we disagree is in the definition of 'beating' - SRL never came close to giving that man a beating. He JUST out boxed him. God he could barely get him to take a step backwards.

[JAB5239]

I think he is saying (and that's always dangerous with Queenie) is that counting punches isn't the way to measure a fight and that the newbies who use it are clueless about what they ae watching.

Of course that may not be what he is saying but it is what I think about counting punches.

Counting punches is for the fans who say very ****** things like " he's scoring points."

Points! Thete ae no "points" in a prize fight there are two men trying to knock each other unconscious.

I watched the Marciano-Walcott fight recently. Dan Dunphy calling the fight, once, in the 8th round commented that Walcott was likely ahead with the judges. He said it ONCE in 13 rounds. He never once used the ridiculous phrase "scoring points" he was busy calling a prize fight not counting 'points.'

Taylor out punched Chavez in every round and Chevez beat Taylor a slow death and finished his career (for all intent and purpose).

Compubox is crap for casual fight fans who want to pretend prize fighting is an athletic competition. It's not! No points, just men and pain.

With all due respect, guys like Benitez, Whitaker, and dare I say Willie Pep were not often bringing the pain but winning fights on points and style.

I get what you're saying, but do think there is a place for compubox. If a fight goes the distance you can look at it two ways. Who landed more, or who landed harder. But if both have landed solid punches throughout the fight and it goes to decision do you not think it matters who threw and landed more punches? Of course that isn't the end all. But like I said, I think it has its place.

[Willie Pep 229]

With all due respect, guys like Benitez, Whitaker, and dare I say Willie Pep were not often bringing the pain but winning fights on points and style.

I get what you're saying, but do think there is a place for compubox. If a fight goes the distance you can look at it two ways. Who landed more, or who landed harder. But if both have landed solid punches throughout the fight and it goes to decision do you not think it matters who threw and landed more punches? Of course that isn't the end all. But like I said, I think it has its place.

Agree on Pep but he fought to win the fight not tactically planning to go the distance and win by judges scorecards.

Leonard went into that fight determined to neutralize Hagler (which he succeeded better than most expectations) but never intended to dominate him. An didn't! He went in intending to outbox him and did. That's not a prize fight to me. If I had known his intentions I would have stayed home.

In regards to how I would have scored the fight you described, that's easy No Decision! -- Rematch anyone?

I know that is impossible because of the importance of ******** to the game. But I can watch a fight for myself and decide for myself if I want to see either of them fight in the future. I just don't need (or want) three fat white guys telling me who scored more "points"; who won.

I really couldn't have cared less if SRL could out box Hagler. If asked before the fight I would have said certainly he can. -- I thought I was buying a fight, I got an exhibition. He out boxed him for 12 full rounds. It was obvious by the 5th round nothing else was going to happen. I still want my money back.

Fighten ain't what it use to be; I think Compubox is just one more element that feeds the monster.

Boxing is a marital art meant to be deployed to win a prize fight; not an end to itself.

[OctoberRed]

Yes, they have.


"Overall, Leonard landed 306 of his 629 thrown punches (49%) compared to Hagler's 291 out of 792 (37%). Two judges had the fight close, seven rounds to five each way, with judge Lou Filippo scoring the fight 115–113 for Hagler, and judge Dave Moretti scoring the fight 115–113 for Leonard".

Good stuff Z

[Willie Pep 229]

If you were to employ the more flexible use of the 10 point must that some support: 10-10 Even; 10-9 Close Rounds; 10-8 Dominate Rounds; 10-7 One KD, ETC.

Hagler has two dominate rounds (according to William Nack SI) the seventh and ninth rounds - if scored as 10-8 rounds it would have caused the fight to end as a split draw.

The Camacho-Rosiaro fight had a similar dynamic.

[MikeyMike100]

If you were to employ the more flexible use of the 10 point must that some support: 10-10 Even; 10-9 Close Rounds; 10-8 Dominate Rounds; 10-7 One KD, ETC.

Hagler has two dominate rounds (according to William Nack SI) the seventh and ninth rounds - if scored as 10-8 rounds it would have caused the fight to end as a split draw.

The Camacho-Rosiaro fight had a similar dynamic.

Its very hard to get a 10-8 round in boxing without a knockdown. Whether that's fair or not is a different story

[Willie Pep 229]

Its very hard to get a 10-8 round in boxing without a knockdown. Whether that's fair or not is a different story

Yes absolutely - what we actually have currently is a "3 point must" system in practice.

10-9 No KD; 10-8 one KD; 10-7 two KDs ---- third KD in a round almost always ends the fight.

The expanded scoring I was suggesting was getting kicked around in the late 80s and 90s but it never got picked up by the judges.

Maybe it would change ( increase) the action if judges split close rounds from dominate ones , encouraging a more aggressive style and in the process increase the importance of a KD (with one KD getting a 10-7 round.)

****ers would like it more than boxers.

As I added above Camacho-Rosairo is a good example: Camacho won with more rounds but many fetlt like Rosairo won the fight. Giving Rosairo a coupe of 10-8s for some dominate rounds moves the score to a draw.