Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[JAB5239]

Why did most fighters fight "retreads" as you put it? Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, even Greb himself? Again, you're holding Dempsey to a double standard. I've already explained to you countless times, there was no money in a Greb fight, and Greb was not exactly a fan favorite back then. When Greb won a decision over Brennan in 1919, The Tulsa ******** newspaper said "although Greb's jumping-jack slapping tactics might gain him the necessary points to win decisions, his hit and move style failed to enthuse the spectators, for the most interesting bouts were made when both battlers were doing real hitting. There were few toe-to-toe exchanges. He poked Brennan continually and poked his thumb in the big fellow's eye, almost putting it out of commission. Head and elbows also were valuable aids to Greb's cause. For a victor he aroused about as little enthusiasm as any visitor ever shown here."

Greb's style, though busy, lended itself to decision wins. All accounts of his title win over Johnny Wilson said it was an ordinary fight, lacking any thrills. Wilson himself insists the fight outcome was fixed. Without any actual footage of Greb it is difficult to quantify his style and whether or not he was entertaining, but many newspaper accounts and fans insist he was not only dirty but not very exciting. Hence he wasn't a big draw.

I'm not holding Dempsey to a double standard. Do you know what the difference is between him a Greb when it came to rematches? Greb was never accused of ****ing anyone to give a fighter he already defeated said rematch.

For everything you say about Greb being boring or not very exciting, I can post an article or quote claiming the opposite.

You say head and elbows were valuable aids to Greb's cause Gene Tunney said Greb never fought dirty unless the other guy initiated it.

Bottom line I Dempsey was the champion. Everyone knew Greb took it to him in sparring and the fight would have sold. Both Rickard and Kearns are on record saying they didn't want the fight with Rickard admitting Greb thumped Jack during their time in the ring. Unless you can show me through newspaper articles of the day that people thought Greb boring or unworthy of fighting Dempsey, and I can retort with way more saying the opposite.....than I'll tend to believe the words of Dempseys own people.

Jack was a great fighter. But he didn't fight his two biggest challenges for years, and that will always be a mark against him.

[JAB5239]

Oh, you mean this hundred year old anonymous source? How many times have I proven this dude is a hypocrite who will say anything to fit his agenda? Pathetic.


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I wonder if there was a name on this one or if it was a "one hundred year old anonymous source." Suddenly he loves them when they fit his agenda.

Does that say Greb would make it mighty lively while it lasted? Sounds like it was a fight the fans could get behind. Surely more than Gibbons, Brennan, Miske etc.

[travestyny]

Does that say Greb would make it mighty lively while it lasted? Sounds like it was a fight the fans could get behind. Surely more than Gibbons, Brennan, Miske etc.

It does indeed say that. But you know, that part of the 100 year old anonymous source didn't fit his agenda, so he kindly left it out.

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm not holding Dempsey to a double standard. Do you know what the difference is between him a Greb when it came to rematches? Greb was never accused of ****ing anyone to give a fighter he already defeated said rematch.

For everything you say about Greb being boring or not very exciting, I can post an article or quote claiming the opposite.

You say head and elbows were valuable aids to Greb's cause Gene Tunney said Greb never fought dirty unless the other guy initiated it.

Bottom line I Dempsey was the champion. Everyone knew Greb took it to him in sparring and the fight would have sold. Both Rickard and Kearns are on record saying they didn't want the fight with Rickard admitting Greb thumped Jack during their time in the ring. Unless you can show me through newspaper articles of the day that people thought Greb boring or unworthy of fighting Dempsey, and I can retort with way more saying the opposite.....than I'll tend to believe the words of Dempseys own people.

Jack was a great fighter. But he didn't fight his two biggest challenges for years, and that will always be a mark against him.

First, I didn’t say anything, it was an article I quoted. As to that clown Travesty who stalks me like a jaded female from thread to thread knowing he is on ignore, if you guys are going to quote anonymous articles I’ll give it give it eight back. Apparently he can dish it out but not take it. No surprises there, he isn’t adult enough to be worth my time. The only reason he exists on this forum is because of me and Dempsey. He is a casual whose boxing knowledge is limited to his Google skills. Never read a boxing book in his life. Never discusses any fighters outside of Dempsey, Johnson and Wills.

I doubt the whole world knew or even cared that Greb gave Dempsey some good work in sparring. It was never really a source of discussion until recent years. Newspapers said a lot of things back then, including Greb being a dirty and not very entertaining fighter. Greb was a big name in Pittsburgh, outside of that he didn’t make for great or entertaining fights. Newspapers and former opponents agree. Rickard and Kearns made fights with whoever they could get the biggest purse. Much like Jack Johnson who you give a pass to for refusing black fighters title shots because in his words “there was no money in it”. So if Dempsey’s camp felt there was no money in a Greb fight why again the double standard? Johnson only fought McVey and Jeannette when they had less than 20 and 10 fights respectively. Didn’t want any part of them once they hit their prime and developed into full blown HWs. Same with Langford.

As I have stated on multiple posts, no time in history does a HW champ ever take full credit for beating a MW. It was a lose-lose fight for Dempsey with not enough upside or reward.

[travestyny]

First, I didn’t say anything, it was an article I quoted. As to that clown Travesty who stalks me like a jaded female from thread to thread knowing he is on ignore, if you guys are going to quote anonymous articles I’ll give it give it eight back. Apparently he can dish it out but not take it. No surprises there, he isn’t adult enough to be worth my time. The only reason he exists on this forum is because of me and Dempsey. He is a casual whose boxing knowledge is limited to his Google skills. Never read a boxing book in his life. Never discusses any fighters outside of Dempsey, Johnson and Wills.

Stalking you? I was participating in this thread from jump, dumbo. And don't pretend your use of "anonymous sources" was retaliation. You been doing the same shlt in all of your discussions. The only reason YOU exist is to tell lies for your idol, Dempsey. I might be a casual, but tell me...how does it feel to know that a casual has been stomping you out for years and you can't handle it

[JAB5239]

First, I didn’t say anything, it was an article I quoted. As to that clown Travesty who stalks me like a jaded female from thread to thread knowing he is on ignore, if you guys are going to quote anonymous articles I’ll give it give it eight back. Apparently he can dish it out but not take it. No surprises there, he isn’t adult enough to be worth my time. The only reason he exists on this forum is because of me and Dempsey. He is a casual whose boxing knowledge is limited to his Google skills. Never read a boxing book in his life. Never discusses any fighters outside of Dempsey, Johnson and Wills.

I doubt the whole world knew or even cared that Greb gave Dempsey some good work in sparring. It was never really a source of discussion until recent years. Newspapers said a lot of things back then, including Greb being a dirty and not very entertaining fighter. Greb was a big name in Pittsburgh, outside of that he didn’t make for great or entertaining fights. Newspapers and former opponents agree. Rickard and Kearns made fights with whoever they could get the biggest purse. Much like Jack Johnson who you give a pass to for refusing black fighters title shots because in his words “there was no money in it”. So if Dempsey’s camp felt there was no money in a Greb fight why again the double standard? Johnson only fought McVey and Jeannette when they had less than 20 and 10 fights respectively. Didn’t want any part of them once they hit their prime and developed into full blown HWs. Same with Langford.

As I have stated on multiple posts, no time in history does a HW champ ever take full credit for beating a MW. It was a lose-lose fight for Dempsey with not enough upside or reward.

Come on, you can't go with the narrative newspapers said a lot of things back then. What was reported was reported by more than one source. And as I've said, I can find many more articles calling Greb exciting than you can saying he wasn't very exciting. I would bet cash money on that. And when the hell did I give Johnson a pass?

Why wouldn't a heavyweight get credit for beating the best fighter out there? Because Greb was certainly laying waste to all the guys Jack fought. Do you give him more credit for beating Brennan even after Greb proved he was better than Brennan. Same with Miske, Gibbons etc. You're saying Dempsey is a greater fighter for beating these guys rather than Greb? With all due respect, because I do respect you, but that is laughable.

Let's call it a day on this topic and move on. It's apparent neither of us is going to change our opinion so let's let it go. I'm sure it will come up again.

[Willie Pep 229]

The date of the poll was circa March 15, 1922, and it looked like this:

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But here's some bad news for the Dempsey Stans. Another poll done in New York that was underway May 9th, 1922. Sure, Wills can be expected to be on top. But look who makes an appearance:

5. Harry Greb: 1,399 votes

11. Gene Tunney: 409 votes

Yea that's cool - so In the New York poll both Greb and Tunney get votes.

Funny how in the New York poll Greb doubles (1300) Carpentier's (700) numbers but then in the nation poll Carpentiter is in the tens of thousands and no sign of Greb.

We need to see the other lesser vote getters for the nation poll, do you have 6-10? I am thinking now Greb might just appear on the national poll further down.

[travestyny]

Yea that's cool - so In the New York poll both Greb and Tunney get votes.

Funny how in the New York poll Greb doubles (1300) Carpentier's (700) numbers but then in the nation poll Carpentiter is in the tens of thousands and no sign of Greb.

We need to see the other lesser vote getters for the nation poll, do you have 6-10? I am thinking now Greb might just appear on the national poll further down.

I'm waiting for you to back up your "Fox News" comment and tell me what I lied about. You going to make accusations about me (again...just like you did regarding the Jeffries quotation and didn't have the decency to come back and apologize when you realized you were wrong), then it would be nice if you could back it up, right?

[GhostofDempsey]

Reminds me of the poll Mayweather put out asking his fans who his next opponent should be. Of course he only gave them two choices...Khan or Maidana. Most fans chose Khan, he chose Maidana instead even though Khan would have been a more lucrative fight. The Floyd fans not only gave him a pass but made excuses on his behalf. Look what happened when Johnson tore up his contract to fight Langford once he became champion...what was his excuse? Money. The Dempsey haters hold him to a separate standard.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm waiting for you to back up your "Fox News" comment and tell me what I lied about. You going to make accusations about me (again...just like you did regarding the Jeffries quotation and didn't have the decency to come back and apologize when you realized you were wrong), then it would be nice if you could back it up, right?

Lighten up - I wasn't calling you a liar I was replying to remark you made that I would never say anything bad about Dempsey - you were calling me bias so I was teasing you saying you sound just like Fox News claiming that you're "fair and balanced" and that I'm fake news.

Just a joke T

In regards to Jeffries, again I never called you a liar I interpreted the quote in its entire and argued that the statement regarding "my best" (by Jeffries) was connected to his complaint about his performance in Reno that day not his entire career.

You then showed me a primary source that showed the same comment ( or maybe just half of it) was made just days after the fight -- but that still doesn't mean that the first half of the quote regarding the dysentery wasn't still relevant maybe just not quoted. I argued that the source you posted may have taken the quote out of context/edited. Tha'ts not calling you a liar.

What do you want me to apologize to? I never called you a liar I didn't agree with your interpretation of the quote and I still don't.

I acknowledged that the news article was more primary than the first post (which was written I think years later) but it's funny that the first source had the complete quote and the one you posted only had the second half (maybe, maybe not) - remember we argued over (in the first article posted) that you said the the writer said "back then" and I pointed out that is only said "then" -- we can't tell if the writer meant "back then" or if he meant that Jeffries was continueing to speak.

I find it hard to believe Jeffries (or any fighter) would ever claim he couldn't have beaten the other guy when he was young. They all have very big egos and always claim there is a reason why they lost.

I do apologize for breaking your balls but I never called you a liar and I shall not, in future, tease you.

I don't believe the quote as is (his entire career) because I don't believe he would ever say that - his ego/pride wouldn't let him.

Will you post the rest of the natioal survey I would like to see if Greb and Tunney made the national list.

If you are offended I will back off and not engage you further- but I would much prefer to continue breaking your balls - there aren't that many interesting conversations on here you're one of the few.