Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[JAB5239]

- -Great stuff Dempsey. As to Greb not being a hvywt contender-obscenely ridiculous. He was beating many of the guys Jack was beating. That Greb wanted that fight is no surprise, any fighter of worth would want it, but today we got Spence/Crawford ducking each other inspire of being in an era with almost no political restrictions in place of most of boxing early history. So what's their excuse in 2120 if fans still exist then still interested in boxing?

It's 2021, not 2120. What were the political restrictions preventing Dempsey vs Greb? There sure weren't any restrictions fighting Harry's leftover's.

[Willie Pep 229]

It's 2021, not 2120. What were the political restrictions preventing Dempsey vs Greb? There sure weren't any restrictions fighting Harry's leftover's.

Been though this already -- seems Dempsey will he accused of ducking no matter what argument is made.

In 1922 the best offer Kearns got for a Greb fight was a 100,000 guarantee with 50% of the gate-- Kearns' minimum was 300,000 plus a % -- besides the Pittsburgh promoter couldn't get the fight staged in New York because the NYSAC (Tammany Hall) who had financial interest in Wills was blocking any New York Dempsry fight other than Wills, (based on a bogus claim that they had the power to determine who was the top contender - of course no such legal empowerment existed but that seldom mattered to Tammsny Hall.)

By 1926 Greb was gone.

This ducking accusation you keep making against Dempsry is unfounded - besides demading that Dempsey supporters prove a 'negative. ( why a fight didn't happen which is very hard to do if not impossible) yet even when we try to do that by showing you the complete dynamics of the day and the situation's reality, you just wait a few days and then repeat the accusation.

[JAB5239]

Been though this already -- seems Dempsey will he accused of ducking no matter what argument is made.

In 1922 the best offer Kearns got for a Greb fight was a 100,000 guarantee with 50% of the gate-- Kearns' minimum was 300,000 plus a % -- besides the Pittsburgh promoter couldn't get the fight staged in New York because the NYSAC (Tammany Hall) who had financial interest in Wills was blocking any New York Dempsry fight other than Wills, (based on a bogus claim that they had the power to determine who was the top contender - of course no such legal empowerment existed but that seldom mattered to Tammsny Hall.)

By 1926 Greb was gone.

This ducking accusation you keep making against Dempsry is unfounded - besides demading that Dempsey supporters prove a 'negative. ( why a fight didn't happen which is very hard to do if not impossible) yet even when we try to do that by showing you the complete dynamics of the day and the situation's reality, you just wait a few days and then repeat the accusation.

If I'm not mistaken, Dempsey was fighting Greb leftovers since 1918. If I'm also not mistaken they spared I'm 1919. That leaves a lot of room to make this fight. We can go round and round. But the fact is Jack was fighting guys Greb already beat, but not Greb. You can't tell me there was no money for a Greb fight but better money for guys he already beat.

[Willie Pep 229]

If I'm not mistaken, Dempsey was fighting Greb leftovers since 1918. If I'm also not mistaken they spared I'm 1919. That leaves a lot of room to make this fight. We can go round and round. But the fact is Jack was fighting guys Greb already beat, but not Greb. You can't tell me there was no money for a Greb fight but better money for guys he already beat.

I am saying just that - Shelby offered (but failed to pay) 300,000 for Gibbons-- Rickard then got Dempsey a 450,000 guarantee plus a % for Firpo - -there is no offer ( at least publically made) for a Greb fight except a 100,000 guarantee made by a Pittsburgh promoter in 1922 -- Yes I am saying that the money wasn't there but again you are insisting I prove a negative and I can't do that -- what I do know is that only one Greb offer is known to have been made and the numbers were way too low.

[Willie Pep 229]

If I'm not mistaken, Dempsey was fighting Greb leftovers since 1918. If I'm also not mistaken they spared I'm 1919. That leaves a lot of room to make this fight. We can go round and round. But the fact is Jack was fighting guys Greb already beat, but not Greb. You can't tell me there was no money for a Greb fight but better money for guys he already beat.

I need to add one more piece if logic -- if Dempsey was ducking Greb as you suggest why would he then take a fight with Tunney a fighter who beat Greb four times. That doesn't make much sense.

[JAB5239]

I need to add one more piece if logic -- if Dempsey was ducking Greb as you suggest why would he then take a fight with Tunney a fighter who beat Greb four times. That doesn't make much sense.

The newspaper accounts say 2-2-1. But I'm not going to split hairs. Tunney dominated one, so did Greb. The point being, Jack fought plenty of guys between 1919 when he sparred Greb that Harry had already beaten pretty handily before the Tunney fights. You have got a case for Firpo, I'm not even arguing that. But you can't tell me there was more call for guys Dempsey fought that had already been soundly beaten by Greb. It make zero sense. We can argue Rickard and Kearns all day, but the bottom line is Jack was the champion and should have been calling the shots. I give him no more a pass than I do to Johnson for not rematching Langford after he had matured.

In my eyes....some 100+ years later....Jack didn't want to take the chance with Greb after getting spanked during sparring. Is that the absolute case? I surely can't say. But what I do know definitively is Dempsey fought a handful of guys Harry had already thumper instead of Greb himself.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Jack KTFO of fighters Greb could only pitterpatter. Jabsy reaching for the sun and moon and stars out of his nether regions...priceless!!!

[JAB5239]

- -Jack KTFO of fighters Greb could only pitterpatter. Jabsy reaching for the sun and moon and stars out of his nether regions...priceless!!!

And yet Greb whooped Tunney, Something Dempsey couldn't do. He also smacked Dempsey around in sparring. Yet some how Dempsey and his team didn't make the fight. Funny there was money for lesser fighters Greb had already beaten. Stooge.

[Willie Pep 229]

And yet Greb whooped Tunney, Something Dempsey couldn't do. He also smacked Dempsey around in sparring. Yet some how Dempsey and his team didn't make the fight. Funny there was money for lesser fighters Greb had already beaten. Stooge.

Are you not placing an awful amount of prestige on guy talk about what they saw in a gym (Greb-Dempsey sparing)? Why would you think that is representative of what would happen in a championship fight. Hanger-ons love to talk about how they saw this and they saw that, things you didn't see, it makes them feel important; Boxing history is filled with old men telling stories.

Also you know all the other crap that goes with it. Certainly Greb showed up wanting to prove himself, Dempsey not really caring. Dempsey use to entertain the crowd by chasing a Bantamweight around the ring to improve his footwork. I doubt very much Greb met the real Jack Dempsey that day.

The Tunney Greb whooped in 1922 looked nothing like the Tunney Dempsey fought; 15 pounds heaver. (174 - 189) In fact as Tunney grew Greb fell further behind.


Take a look at how thin Tunney was in 1922: https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/H..._(1st_meeting)

[Willie Pep 229]

And yet Greb whooped Tunney, Something Dempsey couldn't do. He also smacked Dempsey around in sparring. Yet some how Dempsey and his team didn't make the fight. Funny there was money for lesser fighters Greb had already beaten. Stooge.

SORRY, I got two more remarks.

First you know that Greb would have shown up for a sparing session with the HW Champion looking to prove himself, Dempsey not so much.

Second, when Tunney beat Greb for the final time Greb addressed the crowd announcing he wouldn't be fighting Tunney any more; he conceded to the better man stating that he could no longer beat him. That Tunney still had 8 1/2 pounds to gain before Dempsey. Greb never fought the guy who beat Dempsey.