Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[billeau2]

There's a fella on ESB who swears he has Greb on film in his fight collection, but, also swears he gets off knowing others can't view it so probably just a joker. Closest I ever got to a Greb film.

When I was a kid I would go to the 92nd street YMHA the Yid equivalent of the YMCA. We would spend hours in that building getting into trouble, having fun, to us it was a castle, as an adult it just does not look the same... Anyway, they had this classic old gym. parquet floors, and old White guys would shoot hoops. I was in there one day and this guy had me convinced he was Bob Cousey... He kept popping these shots in, and to me he was a fantastic shot so it all made sense!

I should have had the presence of mind to ask him if he had film, or if he was the great nephew of ole Harry Boy!

[GhostofDempsey]

I’m sure there is a basement or attic somewhere with Greb fights that are not labeled and no one knows who is on them, or whoever did has long since passed away. Seems odd that someone would film his workouts but not his actual fights.

[Willie Pep 229]

If anyone would have film of him I would think you would, since you apparently have entire Harry Wills fights, right?


Maybe they promised not to release them like you did. . Right? lol

The Wills-Firpo fight (if that is the one you are referring to) was a Tex Rickard fight. Rickard had great success presenting the Dempsey-Carpentier fight dispite the Sims prohibiton law - he then afterwares filmed all his fights and had inconsistent success in presenting the films.

Two years later the Dempsey-Firpo didn't go so well, the fed's came down hard on him and he never got the film out of New York. But by Dempsey-Tunney II (1927) Rickard had the system worked, with legal technicalities and bribes, he had great distribution of the film across the county. I believe this is why we have such good surviving prints of the Tunney II fight but poor prints of the Firpo fight (number of prints available to survive the attrition of time.)

Actually I believe we can forget about finding a Greb fight but it wouldn't t surprise me a bit if somewhere there is a Wills-Sharkey fight stashed away.

But IMO we have a Wills fight because of Rickard. Filming something less than a HW championship or HW championship elimination fight might not have been worth the investment.

Greb just may have not warranted the expense of filming his fights. I think Greb is likely more popular legacy wise today then he was at his own time. Certainly the boxing fans loved him back then but I doubt if he held the crossover appeal to the general populace that could regularly packed stadiums never mind pack move theatres across the country.

[HOUDINI563]

Mendoza does not like black fighters. He constantly bad mouths Johnson, Louis and Ali while putting on a pedestal fighters such as Jeffries and Wlad.

[travestyny]

The Wills-Firpo fight (if that is the one you are referring to) was a Tex Rickard fight. Rickard had great success presenting the Dempsey-Carpentier fight dispite the Sims prohibiton law - he then afterwares filmed all his fights and had inconsistent success in presenting the films.

Two years later the Dempsey-Firpo didn't go so well, the fed's came down hard on him and he never got the film out of New York. But by Dempsey-Tunney II (1927) Rickard had the system worked, with legal technicalities and bribes, he had great distribution of the film across the county. I believe this is why we have such good surviving prints of the Tunney II fight but poor prints of the Firpo fight (number of prints available to survive the attrition of time.)

Actually I believe we can forget about finding a Greb fight but it wouldn't t surprise me a bit if somewhere there is a Wills-Sharkey fight stashed away.

But IMO we have a Wills fight because of Rickard. Filming something less than a HW championship or HW championship elimination fight might not have been worth the investment.

Greb just may have not warranted the expense of filming his fights. I think Greb is likely more popular legacy wise today then he was at his own time. Certainly the boxing fans loved him back then but I doubt if he held the crossover appeal to the general populace that could regularly packed stadiums never mind pack move theatres across the country.

Thanks for sharing this, bro! Really nice info!

[travestyny]

Mendoza does not like black fighters. He constantly bad mouths Johnson, Louis and Ali while putting on a pedestal fighters such as Jeffries and Wlad.

Ahhh. Well that explains the Wills hate.

Another one of those in the history section. Great!

[markusmod]

Thanks for sharing this, bro! Really nice info!


Apparently we don't have to worry. Dr. Z. has the full Wills/Firpo fight, and also apparently has Wills/Madden. And he's not a liar at all. Can't wait to see them!

When is he posting them?

[Willie Pep 229]

I can't see it - the Sims Act had put the calabash on making money with fight films; you couldn't get to the market unless you had the clout, money, and nerve Rickard did.

He paid fines ( as high a $5000 once in a 1920s economy), court fees, lawyer fees, and likely bribes, and more than a few times he was only able to get his Dempsey fights in a few States never all of them.

It's hard to conceive that there would be production companies who were filming lesser fights (like Greb) on the speculation they might be able to get them distributed. Maybe! But I think it is wishful thinking. It just doesn't make good business sense to take such a risk. You certainly couldn't be just a company who filmed and distributed fight films only. They couldn't have survived long in the 1920s.

Rickard by his own words saw both his film and radio contracts as possibly being merely loss-leaders guaranteed to build Dempsey's fan base but was not always sure he would profit off the effort/contracts. He was in a position to take such a risk - when it worked it was extra money.

[travestyny]

When is he posting them?

Well I hope soon. I think he stated something like when I'm willing to accept a permanent ban from this site if he does. I'll gladly put up my account in order to get these full fights. No problem! So now he has no excuse since he wants me off this site so badly.

[The Old LefHook]

A free shot with a cork gun.