Marvin Hagler Overrated Legacy?

[StarshipTrooper]

That's funny,They had been ranked in the top ten by ring magazine for a great while,And if you think Schuler was a never was then you are quite simply an idiot

More proof that pedopoet looks at a big puncher like John Mugabi and thinks he was a great fighter

Shuler never beat anyone of note aside from a half-blind Ray Shields. The only time he stepped up in class he got knocked out in 1 round by Tommy Hearns.

Kinchen had wins over 2nd tier fighters Buster Drayton and Frank Minton but he lost every time he faced a top fighter including losses to Iran Barkley, Hearns, and a 1 round KO against Virgil Hill.

I am probably the poster who's impressed the LEAST by big punchers on this site. Peruse my past posts and you'll see that I have consistantly said big punchers tend to get overrated (see references I've made to Hearns, Trinidad, and Tyson). So once again you FAIL because of your irrational tendency to talk out of your ass Try again dip****

Poet

[JAB5239]

Obelmejias was a WBA mandatory at the time of the rematch.

"Hagler had whipped Obelmejias in Boston on Jan. 17, 1981 in his first title defense; he indeed battered Obelmejias around and wore him down before winning on an eighth-round TKO. Going into that bout, Obelmejias was an undefeated mystery—30-0, with 28 KOs—a politically well-connected fighter who had risen to No. 1 in the WBC and WBA by crushing tomato cans. When Hagler whipped him, Obelmejias automatically dropped to No. 4 in the WBA rankings, but he climbed back to No. 1 in the WBA this year by remaining undefeated while two contenders above him lost and the other moved up to light heavyweight. The WBA mandated that Hagler defend against Obelmejias, but the prospect of a rematch was so unattractive that Bob Arum, the promoter, couldn't get a network to buy it. He finally sold the fight to HBO, but only as the first of a three-fight package that is expected to include Hagler's defenses against Sibson and Fletcher."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...82/2/index.htm

Hamsho too was number 1 ranked when they fought again due to his recent wins over Wilfred Benitez and Bobby Czyz.

"Hagler got ready for Hamsho, who as No. 1 contender (his record: 38-2-2, with 22 KOs) was a mandatory challenger, in typically Spartan style in Provincetown, Mass. He didn't meet with the New York media until the day before the fight, when he announced, "I'm feeling especially mean." That condition was brought on by his acute antipathy for Hamsho, who had incurred Hagler's ire in escalating stages. First Hamsho said the Duran fight proved " Hagler is coward, he has no heart." The Roldan fight, Hamsho added, taught him that Hagler "knows how to thumb." Retorted Hagler, "Hamsho was better off when he didn't speak English. I don't want to see this man's face anymore. I don't want to hear his name. Eliminate."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...2761/index.htm

Mugabi was number 1 ranked by all the title organizations (the WBC, WBA & IBF) as well as the Ring Magazine.

Piss******........................

[BigMacFoster]

Shuler never beat anyone of note aside from a half-blind Ray Shields. The only time he stepped up in class he got knocked out in 1 round by Tommy Hearns.

Kinchen had wins over 2nd tier fighters Buster Drayton and Frank Minton but he lost every time he faced a top fighter including losses to Iran Barkley, Hearns, and a 1 round KO against Virgil Hill.

I am probably the poster who's impressed the LEAST by big punchers on this site. Peruse my past posts and you'll see that I have consistantly said big punchers tend to get overrated (see references I've made to Hearns, Trinidad, and Tyson). So once again you FAIL because of your irrational tendency to talk out of your ass Try again dip****

Poet

Kinchen also held a win over a legitimate top ten contender in Murray Sutherland.

Minton? Drayton? Hearns? Barkley? Hill? what time frame are you talking about you clown? I already explained Kinchen was a highly ranked middleweight before he suffered his first loss to James Schuler

Schuler also held a win over the highly ranked James Schuler moron

Piss******........................

Oh look it's the coward who can't counter counter posts so he hides behind much more knowledgeable posters,You don't even watch boxing so your opinion is worthless

you're a newb who couldn't make a decent argument to save your life,This has already been proven in your worthless attempt at defending Joe frazier's manufactured title run

All he said was that they were mandatory challengers which was fairly obvious and I already gave my response to him so before running behind him and claiming him as your hero catch up clown

you best stick to HBO legendary nights with all the other newbs.You're a bigger self ownage poster than SOUTHPAW is

[Southpaw16BF]

Big Mac you have been made a complete fool of, from me to the Great A. Now go away and make another ALT. I have forgot more about Boxing History than you will ever know. FACT

[StarshipTrooper]

Kinchen also held a win over a legitimate top ten contender in Murray Sutherland.

Minton? Drayton? Hearns? Barkley? Hill? what time frame are you talking about you clown? I already explained Kinchen was a highly ranked middleweight before he suffered his first loss to James Schuler

Murray Sutherland is yet ANOTHER never was who never beat an opponent of note. He also had 9 losses on his record (ie. every time he stepped up in class.....) when Kinchen fought him. No-names beating no-names doesn't impress me.

Kinchen fought Minton, Drayton, Hearns, Barkley, and Hill between 1985 and 1989 AND THOSE WHERE HIS ONLY NAME OPPONENTS OVER THAT 5 YEAR STRETCH. Before 1985 he fought exactly NO ONE of note.

Schuler also held a win over the highly ranked James Schuler moron

Shuler beat himself? Off, I suppose I presume you meant Shuler beat Kinchen: See the above about no-names beating no-names

Poet

[TheGreatA]

I've got to admit that this is the first time I've ever heard anyone accuse Hagler of ducking James Kinchen and James Shuler. The Herol Graham argument I've heard before, mainly from British boxing fans.

I don't think Hagler viewed any of them as a real threat to his title.

I also don't see how wins over Kinchen, Shuler and Graham would have added to his legacy.

[JAB5239]

Oh look it's the coward who can't counter counter posts so he hides behind much more knowledgeable posters,You don't even watch boxing so your opinion is worthless

you're a newb who couldn't make a decent argument to save your life,This has already been proven in your worthless attempt at defending Joe frazier's manufactured title run

All he said was that they were mandatory challengers which was fairly obvious and I already gave my response to him so before running behind him and claiming him as your hero catch up clown

you best stick to HBO legendary nights with all the other newbs.You're a bigger self ownage poster than SOUTHPAW is

Yeah I know, thats why my opinion is respected by the majority of posters on these boards if not always agreed with. Do you really think its a coincidence that no one agrees with you and you keep getting banned? You and your opinion are a joke to the knowledgeable posters on these boards. Cry all you want, but learn to live with it.

[Dynamite Kid]

I've got to admit that this is the first time I've ever heard anyone accuse Hagler of ducking James Kinchen and James Shuler. The Herol Graham argument I've heard before, mainly from British boxing fans.

I don't think Hagler viewed any of them as a real threat to his title.

I also don't see how wins over Kinchen, Shuler and Graham would have added to his legacy.

I dont know but.

Hagler did the Kalambay vs Barkley telecast with Ray Mancini and during it he said that he was supposed to fight this guy Graham but Kalambay went over there and beat him so my reading was that he was saying that Graham was no longer a factor.

Dont quote me on that but words to that effect.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Schuler also held a win over the highly ranked James Schuler moron

Brilliant! Just fucking BRILLIANT!!

[1SILVA]

Now I just got done posting a response in another thread in regards to Marvin Hagler and I was on way to giving a more in depth response when I thought that it deserved a thread in itself,And that is in regard to Hagler and his legacy

Virtually every fighter is called overrated in this sport but this man,Hagler and his reseme never get questioned despite the fact that he fought in a fairly weak era of middleweights,despite the fact that he gets more credit for beating smaller fighters than any other fighter in history and he has gotten away with more whining and crying than any other fighter in the history of the sport

Hagler for years accused Hearns and Leonard of ducking him despite the fact that the two fought in division below him and unfortunately so many fans buy into this weak accusation,The very same argument could be used as to why Marvin Hagler never moved up to 175 to fight the likes of Michael Spinks and Dwight Muhammad Qawi.

Ray Leonard gets accused of ducking Hagler for five years despite the fact that apart from one dissapointing return showing he was retired due to a legitimate detached retina and regardless of whether you felt Hagler won this fight or not,I would think any unbiased,impartial viewer would have it as a very close fight.Leonard was given the nod and when time came for Hagler to simply give Leonard his credit he never did,He ran off crying like a school girl to Italy and let his **** sucking fans to make excuses for him

Infact he went out of his way to discredit the man now compare this Thomas Hearns class who hid the fact that he roke his right hand so nobody would discredit Haglers victory over him,He didn't have to do that but he did,Leonard an inactive welterweight was ale to e extremely competitive with a man who was predicted to destroy Leonard and yet this is never mentioned as it doesn't it Haglers "destruct and destroy" legacy


Men like Fulgencio Obelmejias and Mustafa Hamsho got second shots at Hagler despite beating both men decisively and yet deserving challengers like James Kinchen,James Shuler and Herol Graham never did

Marvin Hagler fans are welcome to come here and refute what I said because I unlike some do not put those who disagree with me on ignore

There have been many Middleweight champs who defended against former WW champs.

Ray Robinson defended against Carmen Basilio
Gene Fullmer defended against Benny Paret
**** Tiger defended against Emile Griffith
Nino Benvenuti against Luis Rodriguez
Carlos Monzon against Jose Napoles
Hagler against Hearns, Duran and Leonard
Michael Nonn against Donald Curry and Marlon Starling
Hopkins against Trinidad and De La Hoya

In most cases, that is where the money is. had Benitez defeated Hamsho, he would have gotten the shot as it was an elimination bout.
Graham, Shuler and Kinchen ducked by Hagler? I don't think those three ever believed that.