Post You All-Time Great Lists! (No Trolls)

[Stoppage]

Don't flatter yourself: I slept like a log last night. My comment was an afterthought I decided to add while I perused yesterday's posts over lunch and coffee this afternoon,

What's of considerably more import is your inability to respects views that differ from your own. So some people don't agree with my ranking Marciano as an ATG Heavyweight. So what? It's not like they're claiming something demonstatively ****** like the Earth is flat or something in that vein. It's hardly going to cause me to lose respect for them.

As to why I rank Liston higher than Marciano. For starters, it's not like Liston wasn't a beast: Watch the Cleveland Williams fights for evidence of this. Secondly; Liston was Marciano's match in punching power, had a granite chin of his own (see the William's fights), and while not a defensive master was not as easy to hit as Marciano. Let's face it: Rocky sponged punches throughout his career. Thirdly, Liston had what is practically universally regarded as one of the best two or three jabs in Heavyweight history while Marciano rarely if ever was effective with a jab. Moreover Liston had an 84" reach, Marciano only 67". Rocky's only way of fighting was to get inside of his opponent. Short-armed pressure fighters are the least able to adapt what they do in the ring because of their physical limitations. This leads to such debacles as the Foreman Vs. Frazier fights. While I could easily see Liston fighting Foreman on even terms, a Foreman Vs. Marciano matchup would go EXACTLY the same way as Foreman Vs. Frazier. I seriously doubt I will ever have a short-armed pressure fighter crack my Heavyweight top five. They're simply too limited.

Poet

You're taking my respect into too much consideration. I don't respect the fact that they have Liston over Marciano because it just doesn't add up to me. I'll admit Liston would have given Marciano a very tough fight and could have possibly beaten him. But in the rankings he doesn't deserve to be higher. Almost everyone's rankings are based on accomplishments and that's how mine is, as well.

If someone said Lewis or Tyson is greater than Marciano then I can understand because it's debatable. Marciano and Liston aren't.

I also forgot who I'm talking to when I asked why you rate Liston over Marciano. Yours is based on skills and attributes rather than accomplishments. Tomorrow you'll probably have Thomas Hearns over Ray Robinson because of his height and reach advantage.

[StarshipTrooper]

Sorry but I have to get this off my chest. Why the heck do you rank ability over accomplishments?

Marciano achieved so much more than Liston. And now your bringing Liston's reach in, as another reason why you rank him higher? WTF

Man you need to get your ratings sorted. It's the worst top 20 I have ever seen.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS SHOULD BE THE MAIN FACTOR IN RANKING A FIGHTER! NOT ABILITY! FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACT

The only thing I care about is who's better, not who got the most accolades. When football fans discuss compare the '79 Steelers and the '72 Dolphins they're usually arguing over who was better, not who won the most games. I don't see this as any different. When I rank fighters I'm doing so on the basis of if they all had to fight each other how would the standings shake out.....simple as that.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

You're taking my respect into too much consideration. I don't respect the fact that they have Liston over Marciano because it just doesn't add up to me. I'll admit Liston would have given Marciano a very tough very and could have possibly beaten him. But in the rankings he doesn't deserve to be higher. Almost everyone's rankings are based on accomplishments and that's how mine is, as well.

If someone said Lewis or Tyson is greater than Marciano then I can understand because it's debatable. Marciano and Liston aren't.

I also forgot who I'm talking to when I asked why you rate Liston over Marciano. Yours is based on skills and attributes rather than accomplishments. Tomorrow you'll probably have Thomas Hearns over Ray Robinson because of his height and reach advantage.

Fail. Robinson was a better fighter than Tommy Hearns ever dreamed of being. I could care less about height anyway: It's the single most irrelivent physical attribute in boxing. Start that argument with the Klitschko nuthuggers: They're the one's that can't get past height.

Truth be told, you're sounding like a butt-hurt fan-boi who can't divorce his views from his emotional attachment to particular fighters.

Poet

[Stoppage]

Fail. Robinson was a better fighter than Tommy Hearns ever dreamed of being. I could care less about height anyway: It's the single most irrelivent physical attribute in boxing. Start that argument with the Klitschko nuthuggers: They're the one's that can't get past height.

Truth be told, you're sounding like a butt-hurt fan-boi who can't divorce his views from his emotional attachment to particular fighters.

Poet

Why am I so shocked that you now resort to name calling. Real class.

Also, my views have nothing to do with emotional attachment. That's another lame excuse you use because I don't respect your opinion.

[StarshipTrooper]

Why am I so shocked that you now resort to name calling. Real class.

Also, my views have nothing to do with emotional attachment. That's another lame excuse you use because I don't respect your opinion.

[Benncollinsaad]

Guys, guys...take it easy now.

[Stoppage]

Guys, guys...take it easy now.

Don't worry. I'm done. There's no point to it.

[GJC]

Guys, guys...take it easy now.

Its a shame when these things go like this, its opinion guys it would be a pretty dull forum if we agreed on everything. We can agree to differ and respect others point of view though surely?

[them_apples]

You're taking my respect into too much consideration. I don't respect the fact that they have Liston over Marciano because it just doesn't add up to me. I'll admit Liston would have given Marciano a very tough fight and could have possibly beaten him. But in the rankings he doesn't deserve to be higher. Almost everyone's rankings are based on accomplishments and that's how mine is, as well.

If someone said Lewis or Tyson is greater than Marciano then I can understand because it's debatable. Marciano and Liston aren't.

I also forgot who I'm talking to when I asked why you rate Liston over Marciano. Yours is based on skills and attributes rather than accomplishments. Tomorrow you'll probably have Thomas Hearns over Ray Robinson because of his height and reach advantage.

Liston would have beaten rocky, probably by a terrible stoppage, but I don't think he cracks the upper end of my ATg list.

[them_apples]

I have Walker at #16 on my Middleweight ATG list. If that seems low, bear in mind I have 22 fighters I rank as ATGs in that weight class: The Middleweight division is historically VERY deep. Now I haven't seen much footage of Walker unfortunately but from everything I've read he was an excellent fighter.

Chandler is my #32 all-time Bantamweight. I've had the pleasure of watching a number of his fights and I can say that I believe him to be a truly terrific fighter.

Poet

If you haven't seen much of Walker fight how can you say you base your lists of overall ability?

people could have said he was great but we will never know if there is hardly any footage.

we have a guy like Johnson who looked downright terrible when he fights, lunging in, chin exposed, getting dropped by men much smaller and weaker than him. Now unless we go by accomplishments a man like he shouldn't even touch the ATg list. Accomplishments wise - he may however. IMO.