Does anyone on here think Muhhamad Ali is overrated?

[boxingbuff]

First paragraph, what does that have to do with anything?

Second paragraph, it was after the 14th round that people around Ali's corner got the impression he didn't want to continue.

NO,it was after the 10th round that Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting in the Trilla' in Manilla.Ali then got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds. As far as the 15th round,only Joe Frazier in his book claimed that Willie "The worm" Monroe heard Ali say he wasn't coming out for the last round.Joe Frazier just lost the fight and it was nothing but "sour g****s" from Joe.

Please read Joe Frazier's book,and everything he said about Ali in his book.WOW!! I couldn't believe what I was reading.Please get a copy of his book.It will clearly let you know why Frazier made this 15th round myth up.

[Slimey Limey]

You were saying that Ali never wanted to quit. That's why I brought it up, to counter your original argument.

I personally don't think that Ali wanted to quit in the Thrilla in Manila, but he stated immediately after the fight that he had his doubts after the 10th round when Frazier kept coming.



I brought it up, because it's equally classless as you saying that Robinson quit against Maxim, insulting him for it (while I never would about Ali), when he was risking serious injury by continuing to fight severely dehydrated (a fact stated by ring doctors who examined him after the bout). As a boxing fan you should know how dangerous that is, the brain becomes more vulnerable when there is no cushion of fluid to protect it. This is what lead to most ring tragedies, for example McClellan, Watson and Anifowoshe as I stated eaerlier.

As for the last part, actually I responded to your arguments, didn't hear from you in days and didn't check back again. Perhaps you responded with something but I didn't get to see it.

You didn't counter ****e because 1-Ali never quit and 2- You yourself actually agree with this so way to go making an arse of yourself mate. You're completely useless.

And you brought it up because it was classless as well? Then that means you were classless as well, whcih means you stooped to my level. Which means you ripped on Ali the same way. Which means you are a hypocritical moronic ******, mate.

And one thing I never denied is that it would have been dangerous for Salty GAY Robinson to have continued. HOwever, this is BOXING. Everybody knows it's dangerous. If Gay Robinson didn't want to get hurt he shouldn't have even come into the ring that night. You're basicely saying Gay Robinson could dish it out, but not receive it(note the lad he killed in the ring. He may have been killed by Maxim indeed, but he was too cowardly) which only proves me right.

And yes lad you QUIT in the thunderdome thread, just like your idol.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=285963&page=9

Ran off with your tail between your legs. It's too late now. It's done.

[1SILVA]

"If he does not restore his fluid loss and enters the ring dehydrated, he may be courting the same disaster that ended the last big money-making light heavyweight championship in New York. It happened three years ago this week, when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Joey Maxim.

Dr. Ira McCown of the State Athletic Commission recalls, "The temperature that day was 94�. The humidity was 90%. That evening was so still and quiet you couldn't even see the flags waving in the breeze—because there was no breeze.

"We had a mass of 45,000 spectators on hand, which increased the heat. At ringside we also had an added factor of about 100 klieg lights overhead. That brought the temperature—it was proven—to 103� at the edge of the ring. Under the lights, we feel undoubtedly, it was nearer 130."

All day long Robinson had taken no fluids. He tried to sleep, but couldn't. He got up about 8 o'clock and Dr. Vincent Nardiello tried to give him something to drink. "I wanted to give him a big glass of lemonade with plenty of sugar. I finally gave him iced tea with plenty of sugar, but he refused to take it. 'Doctor,' he said, 'I've been fighting for 14 years. I never took any fluids before a fight.'

"I said, 'Son, this is a tough night. This is a real hot night. You have got to have fluids.' He didn't take a thing, and that's what licked him. He was absolutely dehydrated."

Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

"The first symptom that we noticed," Dr. McCown remembers, "was about the fourth round—and, mark you, the managers and trainers at ringside said, 'Oh Doc, he's in fine shape. Do you see how he is feinting Maxim for the kill?' Robinson was running around the ropes. I think it was the fifth he went to the wrong corner—well, he went the wrong way, but in the 11th he absolutely went to the wrong corner.

"At the 11th round Dr. Schiff [a ring physician] and I went to his corner. Robinson was very glassy-eyed. His body was wet. He was hot. He didn't know where he was. He was anxious to continue, but he was in no condition. He was absolutely out, physically out.

"When we got him back we had to literally carry him back to his dressing room. I have never seen such a state of cerebral excitation. He didn't know where he was. He was cursing—anybody would do that when he gets in that state. It was a very depressing thing to see."

Robinson was suffering from heat exhaustion. He was dried out to begin with. He became further exhausted because he literally lost three to four quarts of fluid right in the ring, and it wasn't being replaced. Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...22/2/index.htm

Inside the ring, under the lights, where the temperature was 104�, both men kept lighting in their respective styles. They sprayed sweat, but neither seemed un-duly weakened. Robinson took the first 11 rounds with ease. In The New York Times next day Arthur Daley reported, "The middleweight king was truly superb. His combination punches rocked Maxim, and raked him to jaw and body. He hooked and he crossed and he jabbed and he delivered uppercuts. In the seventh Maxim was almost on the verge of a knockout and required smelling salts in his corner." In the same paper James P. Dawson wrote, "Fighting out of a crouch, ignoring a weight handicap of pretty close to twenty pounds, Robinson blazed through the rounds, punching Maxim almost at will."

The fight took a surprising turn at the end of the 10th round, but it did not concern either fighter. Ruby Goldstein, the referee, suddenly caved in. His glistening face turned a horrid gray and. at the bell ending the round, he signaled that he could not continue. The heat had become too much for him. Ray Miller took over at the beginning of the 11th.

Then, not quite so suddenly, but plain for the excited crowd to see, the heat began eating into Sugar Rays reserves. The crowd yelled frantically for him to slow down, to coast along to the end and earn one of the easiest victories of his career. But Robinson continued to dance—on legs that were turning to rubber. Maxim took the 12th round, his first so far, and even began to look like the original figment of Freddie Mills' imagination (and mine). In the 13th Robinson's dance turned to a stagger. He lashed Out awkwardly, missed grotesquely and fell flat on his face. Then he pulled himself up and reeled round the ring. Maxim stared at him, flat-footed, nonplussed, possibly suspecting a trick. No wonder. Nothing in Maxim's career had prepared him to deal with this unprecedented opportunity. As the bell rang at the end of the 13th Robinson stumbled to a neutral corner. He had to be helped over to his stool. His head drooped. Massage and smelling sails failed to revive him. and he was unable to come out for the 14th. The doctor later pronounced it a "heat Stroke."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...88/2/index.htm

Thank you for the excellent source. At the time Robinson could not continue, he was ahead 10 rounds to 3, 9 round to 3 with one even, and 7 round to 3 with 3 even on the official scorecards. With a lead that huge, he had to have been completely out of it not to continue with the 175 pound crown on the line. The heat ko'd him just like it did Ruby Goldstein

[1SILVA]

It was 110 degrees in Manilla,with wicked humitity!

And it was a brutal fight,fought at a very fast pace.

In his book Frazier said it felt like he was in a pizza oven!

Oh,there was no air conditioning.

The brutality that Ali and Frazier went through in that fight was ridiculous. No one quit in that fight; it was Futch that was saving Frazier as it was Frazier that took a horrific beating in the 13th and 14th round and could not see.

[princemanspoper]

It's a myth that Dundee openly admits? And he's admitted it on shows having nothing to do with HBO, so don't start.

I'm not going by Frazier's corner, I'm going by the people around Ali's corner.

As for the last bit,

Dundee wasn't the only man in attendance that day dunce.There was an entire press row there incase you forgot,Dundee was as much a self promoter as Ali was.His silly little story doesn't make him look bad,If anything it makes him look like a savvy,smart cornerman.Go and look at the footage dunce,Five extra second clay recieved just five and the gloves were never changed

The facts outweigh the speculation dunce try again.

[boxingbuff]

Thank you for the excellent source. At the time Robinson could not continue, he was ahead 10 rounds to 3, 9 round to 3 with one even, and 7 round to 3 with 3 even on the official scorecards. With a lead that huge, he had to have been completely out of it not to continue with the 175 pound crown on the line. The heat ko'd him just like it did Ruby Goldstein

Lets make this simple.About 90% of boxing experts,trainers,boxing writers,fans,and fighters rank SRR the #1 fighter pfp of all-time.

I think this is kinda funny.One day Muhammad Ali was going on and on about himself being the GOAT,and a reporter asked him:What about SRR? Ali said:"I never said I was the greatest pfp,I said I'm the greatest fighter of all-times"

Kinda witty on Ali's part.But no doubt SRR is the greatest pfp fighter of all-times.He never quit,and Ali never quit....End of story.

[1SILVA]

lets make this simple.about 90% of boxing experts,trainers,boxing writers,fans,and fighters rank srr the #1 fighter pfp of all-time.

I think this is kinda funny.one day muhammad ali was going on and on about himself being the goat,and a reporter asked him:what about srr? Ali said:"i never said i was the greatest pfp,i said i'm the greatest fighter of all-times"

kinda witty on ali's part.but no doubt srr is the greatest pfp fighter of all-times.he never quit,and ali never quit....end of story.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheGreatA]

You didn't counter ****e because 1-Ali never quit and 2- You yourself actually agree with this so way to go making an arse of yourself mate. You're completely useless.

I brought up the first Ali-Liston fight as an example that Ali did have thoughts of quitting in his mind. Not in the Thrilla in Manila, but against Liston.

And you brought it up because it was classless as well? Then that means you were classless as well, whcih means you stooped to my level. Which means you ripped on Ali the same way. Which means you are a hypocritical moronic ******, mate.

I brought up the Ali-Holmes fight because it was a situation comparable to the Robinson-Maxim fight, with Ali's health being endangered had he continued to fight, just like Robinson's. I do not criticize Ali for this bout, thus I do not stoop down to your level, because I feel both situations were acceptable and neither fighter should be accused of any "cowardice". It is you who feels the need to insult Robinson for what happened to him against Joey Maxim.

And one thing I never denied is that it would have been dangerous for Salty GAY Robinson to have continued. HOwever, this is BOXING. Everybody knows it's dangerous. If Gay Robinson didn't want to get hurt he shouldn't have even come into the ring that night. You're basicely saying Gay Robinson could dish it out, but not receive it(note the lad he killed in the ring. He may have been killed by Maxim indeed, but he was too cowardly) which only proves me right.

Robinson was one of the toughest boxers who ever lived. This is unquestionable. It's as if you have never seen the man fight.

This is a fighter who continued on until his mid 40's against top competition and was not stopped but once due to heat exhaustion.

And yes lad you QUIT in the thunderdome thread, just like your idol.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=285963&page=9

Ran off with your tail between your legs. It's too late now. It's done.

As I said, you posted several days after my initial response which is why I missed your post. Anyway, it doesn't seem like there's anything worth responding for which everyone can see for themselves.

No factual response when I brought up facts about Ray Robinson's fight against Maxim.

Agreeing that the Walcott knockdown was legit and trying to act like you were just joking.

Saying I quit in an argument you, when I didn't.

Putting down great fighters by calling them clowns, bums, bumbeaters, gays, chickens and flinging personal insults directed at me left and right, the usual stuff from you to which I've responded more than enough times.

[Obama]

NO,it was after the 10th round that Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting in the Trilla' in Manilla.Ali then got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds. As far as the 15th round,only Joe Frazier in his book claimed that Willie "The worm" Monroe heard Ali say he wasn't coming out for the last round.Joe Frazier just lost the fight and it was nothing but "sour g****s" from Joe.

Please read Joe Frazier's book,and everything he said about Ali in his book.WOW!! I couldn't believe what I was reading.Please get a copy of his book.It will clearly let you know why Frazier made this 15th round myth up.

You know I'd take Willie's word over Ali's any day right?

Dundee wasn't the only man in attendance that day dunce.There was an entire press row there incase you forgot,Dundee was as much a self promoter as Ali was.His silly little story doesn't make him look bad,If anything it makes him look like a savvy,smart cornerman.Go and look at the footage dunce,Five extra second clay recieved just five and the gloves were never changed

The facts outweigh the speculation dunce try again.

Dundee is the best witness, his point of view > press rows. Also, I counted about 8 seconds. That's 8 seconds more than he should have had.

[princemanspoper]

You know I'd take Willie's word over Ali's any day right?



Dundee is the best witness, his point of view > press rows. Also, I counted about 8 seconds. That's 8 seconds more than he should have had.

So now you can't even count dunce? It was 5 seconds.Nothing more or nothing less and dundee estimated the time as being even longer.You don't have to be in the corner to count the time in between rounds you moron,If anything considering the shape clay was in at that point.I would take the time keeper and press rows timing over a frantics Angelo Dundee's.Oh wait I forgot there's the actual film there for me to see under my own eyes.

Not only have you actually failed to produce any type of evidence here,You've also gone back on your original statement.The fact that you go along using debunked myths as facts pretty much validates you as a dunce.Now run along ang go watch HBO's re runs of legendary nights while you wait for the next installment of 24/7 Dunce.I'd prefer to discuss matters with those who actually know boxing

mmGAY may be your kind of sport