jack dempsey is the most overrated.....

[Southpaw16BF]

** You obviously know very little of Dempsey.

Everyone wished the Wills fight came off. Wills got paid for it. Dempsey didn't. Not Jack's fault.

Greb? If I hear one more crack about this little fella being any more than a sparring partner for about 6 rounds, I think I might conjure up his ghost to crack on.

Dempsey did not control his destiny until stepping into the ring. Doc Kearns and Tex Rickard assigned his fights, and then Jack did his job.

Now, Rickard offered Wills a shot at Tunney in an elimination to face Dempsey. Both turned it down, but supposedly Tunney did an about face and was willing. Who knows, but this is Tunney's account, not Wills.

Regardless, Tunney fought Gibbons instead and earned his shot. Wills had another shot at Tunney as champ, but lost to Sharkey who was then KOed by Jack for the Tunney rematch.

Guess they were all "ducking" Greb.

You are indeed wrong, A Harry Greb and Dempsey fight was on and everyone had agreed to it, and the only person needing to accept was Dempsey, and he rejected.

Greb was calling out Dempsey even when he wasn't Champion in 1919, But Dempsey just wound't accept his offer, he chose to Battling Levinsky instead, a man Greb had just defeated. Greb would defeat many of opponets, and then them opponets such as Tommy Gibbons and Battling Levinsky would go on to fight Dempsey.

After Dempsey won the Title, most newspapers were calling for this fight to be made.

They had many of proposed fights, on July 21 1919, a headline read ''Greb Dempsey fight probabale, two promoters offer purses. The proposed fight was due to take place on labour day, the fight was to be a 10 round fight, lots of promoters were lining up to set this fight up.


Greb wanted the fight so much, beliving there was no dout he could beat Dempsey.At this time no heavyweight had defeated Greb, Greb was destroying heavyweights. When Greb and his manager Red Mason were asked about the fight, Mason said Greb is more than willing, he is asking for the bout, Mason said it's all up to Dempsey.

The Pittsburgh post wrote ''So its up to Dempsey. and its going to be difficlut for Dempsey to say ''go get a reputation to Greb, as Greb has licked just as many heavyweights as Dempsey.

Dempsey would then enter talks win Bill Brennan. A man Greb had already defeated. Greb had beaten Brennan in Feb/March time, and you think Dempsey would of wanted to fight the conqueror in these fights, Dempsey chose to fight the loser. After dempsey defeated Brennan, Brennan would go onto say there is no dout in his mind Greb would defeat Demspey.

The botom line is the reason a Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey fight never took place was because Dempsey never wanted it, go and read Fearless Harry Greb for prove.....

In 1953 in a sports magazine, there was a article on the subject of how Dempsey just refuses to fight Greb, written by author Bill Stern ''The Man Dempsey wound't fight''

And you say ''If I hear one more crack about this little fella being any more than a sparring partner for about 6 rounds''

Talk about disrepect, this little fella you say....Greb was beating all the best heavyweights in the world, and this little fella you say, split Dempseys left eye open, and in the first spar, Dempsey said he will have to call it a day.

The crowd who were watching, all loved Greb, Greb was said to look as strong as a young bull. And after a few more sparring sessions, that Greb also got the better of, Demspey just didn't want to know.

Hey, Greb even use to say to Dempsey,to his face, when you gonna fight me you bum''

So don't make out like, no one was avoiding Greb, and it was all Kearns. No it was ''DEMPSEY'' who was avoiding him. And to be honest it sounded to me like you don't think that highly of Greb, well Mr. LRR, I think you need to go and do your research on the great Harry Greb or buy his book......at least.

And no Tunney was not ducking Greb, as they eventually fought ......

And Harry Willis once seen Greb in action, as he was sitting at ringside, this was Greb past his prime. And Willis was speachless, as he cound't belive how good and fast Greb was........so I don't think he ever really would of wanted a showdown with Greb either.

[GJC]

I know it was always mentioned that Harry Greb gave Dempsey murders sparring. Not 100% sure that Dempsey avoided Greb although I wouldn't argue against Southpaw 16bf's research. I would ask though, is the research mainly from pro Greb sources such as his book? I may be cynical but books can be as slanted as some posters on here.
Like I said I would bow to your obviously greater research but just put in that as food for thought. I am a big fan of both fighters so have no real axe to grind either way.

[LondonRingRules]

You are indeed wrong, A Harry Greb and Dempsey fight was on and everyone had agreed to it, and the only person needing to accept was Dempsey, and he rejected.

** My little friend, again, Doc Kearns and Rickard guided Dempsey. Dempsey had no say so until he left Kearns and Rickard, signed to fight Wills, had the fight fall out, and ended up in Hollywood.

I don't doubt that Greb was "calling out" Dempsey, but that's no different from Toney calling out the Klitschkos after a miserable heavy record or untold dozens of heavys calling out the champ in any era.

The wins you cite for Greb were newspaper wins, hardly official wins in the day. Kid Norfolk also wanted Dempsey sweepstakes as did many others.

At any rate, when Jack stepped into the ring from the stage, it was the deserving Tunney waiting for him, though most would prefer to see Wills.

[Southpaw16BF]

** My little friend, again, Doc Kearns and Rickard guided Dempsey. Dempsey had no say so until he left Kearns and Rickard, signed to fight Wills, had the fight fall out, and ended up in Hollywood.

I don't doubt that Greb was "calling out" Dempsey, but that's no different from Toney calling out the Klitschkos after a miserable heavy record or untold dozens of heavys calling out the champ in any era.

The wins you cite for Greb were newspaper wins, hardly official wins in the day. Kid Norfolk also wanted Dempsey sweepstakes as did many others.

At any rate, when Jack stepped into the ring from the stage, it was the deserving Tunney waiting for him, though most would prefer to see Wills.

No once again my little frind you are wrong. You say Greb calling out Dempsey is no different than Toney calling out the Klitschkos brothers.

What! There's a HUGE diiference, Greb is actually beating all the top heavyweight contenders. Do you see Ring Magzine's today saying Toney Wlad needs to happen is this a fight the fans want to see? No it isn't.

Newspapers and boxing writers all wanted to see a Greb Dempsey showdwon, but Dempsey didn't want to know.

Unlike James Toney, Greb is beating all the top contenders in the heavyweight division in convincing fashion. And Greb would defeat heavyweights who would the go on to fight Demspey. After Greb had beat them.

Toney is not even beating contenders no more. What a silly remark by you!

And I really think you lack in Harry Greb knowlodge because by the sounds of it you don't really know much about him. You say ''I don't doubt that Greb was "calling out Demspey''

Are you insane? Greb was permantlly calling out Demspey, thats all he ever did.....As I said he would say to Demspey when are you going to fight me you bum''

And you say ''The wins you cite for Greb were newspaper wins, hardly official wins in the day'' Another bogus comment by you, I've read virtually every newspaper reports of Grebs fights, and in the reports he was domianting the heavyweights and easily getting the decision's.

And you also say ''Kid Norfolk also wanted Dempsey sweepstakes as did many others''. Alot of fighters wanted Dempsey indeed, but Greb was the most deserving, because he was beating everyone put him front of him, you do know Greb beat Kid Norfolk. Aswell as all the top heavyweight contenders, who would go on to get chances at Demepsey after Greb had beat them

As I said you should go and read Fearless Harry Greb or research about Greb, as you really lack knowlodge of him and his career aswell as the Dempsey feud. You will learn alot.

[JAB5239]

At any rate, when Jack stepped into the ring from the stage, it was the deserving Tunney waiting for him, though most would prefer to see Wills.

Tunney was indeed deserving, but so was Wills who was relegated to the sidelines for years as the #1 contender. I think Dempsey would have beaten him, but Harry deserved his shot as much as any heavy in history. Jmo.

[GJC]

Tunney was indeed deserving, but so was Wills who was relegated to the sidelines for years as the #1 contender. I think Dempsey would have beaten him, but Harry deserved his shot as much as any heavy in history. Jmo.

Yes I agree would have loved to have seen that fight happen and yes I think Dempsey would win. That was a fight that I believe Rickard killed because of all the history of racial problems the Jeffries v Johnson fight he had been involved in.

[Lacrimosa]

Indeed, some posters need to understand when you see lots of losses and draws on the old school fighter's such as Dempsey Langford etc.

***

Therefore in the record books, you will see ND6, which means a newspaper decision fight sceduled for six rounds.

All above said should make Genne Tunney`s record even more impressive

[Flicker Jab]

Dempsey was much more than a brawler.

Dempsey's mother had a visit from a traveling salesman one day. At this time, Dempsey was just a baby. The salesman was selling biographies of John L Sullivan. She purchased one, and read it aloud to her babe-in-arms, in hopes of a better life for her son. At the age of fifteen, Jack had left school. Raised in the hobo camps of the west, he found work in one of the many mines marking the topography of the state. He worked there for a little while, until a camp bully threw dirt in his face. He answered in the only manner he could; with his fists, tools that would soon become famous in another trade.

After that, he found work on the docks. After a long day, he walked into a nearby saloon, looking for a mug of ale to quench his thirst. He noticed a smaller man, being beset by two large bruisers.. They were bearing down on this little guy and Jack, being a natural peacemaker, dispatched both of them, each with one punch.

The man he saved was Jack "Doc" Kearns, he had found a friend and a manager. Together, this tandem would blaze a searing path across the west, stepping over the prone bodies of heavyweights all the way to the title. Starting with Dempsey's first recorded fight, against One Punch Han**** in Salt Lake City, whom he prophetically dispatched with the first left hook he ever threw in the squared circle.


Dempsey fought limited opposition and it was not his fault. Blacks weren't allowed to box back then, at all, and fighting for a title, much less the heavyweight championship of the world was very unlikely. If you don't believe me, look it up. Johnson learned how to box on something called The Chitlin Circuit (no bull****) and this was a boxing ring where 4-8 black guys would enter, blindfolded, and beat the **** out of each other. Whoever was standing at the end, was teh winner. Johnson emerged as the Chitlin Circuit Champion and that is how he began gaining recognition as a boxer.

[Flicker Jab]

Dempsey was much more than a brawler.

You are indeed wrong, A Harry Greb and Dempsey fight was on and everyone had agreed to it, and the only person needing to accept was Dempsey, and he rejected.

Greb was calling out Dempsey even when he wasn't Champion in 1919, But Dempsey just wound't accept his offer, he chose to Battling Levinsky instead, a man Greb had just defeated. Greb would defeat many of opponets, and then them opponets such as Tommy Gibbons and Battling Levinsky would go on to fight Dempsey.

After Dempsey won the Title, most newspapers were calling for this fight to be made.

They had many of proposed fights, on July 21 1919, a headline read ''Greb Dempsey fight probabale, two promoters offer purses. The proposed fight was due to take place on labour day, the fight was to be a 10 round fight, lots of promoters were lining up to set this fight up.


Greb wanted the fight so much, beliving there was no dout he could beat Dempsey.At this time no heavyweight had defeated Greb, Greb was destroying heavyweights. When Greb and his manager Red Mason were asked about the fight, Mason said Greb is more than willing, he is asking for the bout, Mason said it's all up to Dempsey.

The Pittsburgh post wrote ''So its up to Dempsey. and its going to be difficlut for Dempsey to say ''go get a reputation to Greb, as Greb has licked just as many heavyweights as Dempsey.

Dempsey would then enter talks win Bill Brennan. A man Greb had already defeated. Greb had beaten Brennan in Feb/March time, and you think Dempsey would of wanted to fight the conqueror in these fights, Dempsey chose to fight the loser. After dempsey defeated Brennan, Brennan would go onto say there is no dout in his mind Greb would defeat Demspey.

The botom line is the reason a Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey fight never took place was because Dempsey never wanted it, go and read Fearless Harry Greb for prove.....

In 1953 in a sports magazine, there was a article on the subject of how Dempsey just refuses to fight Greb, written by author Bill Stern ''The Man Dempsey wound't fight''

And you say ''If I hear one more crack about this little fella being any more than a sparring partner for about 6 rounds''

Talk about disrepect, this little fella you say....Greb was beating all the best heavyweights in the world, and this little fella you say, split Dempseys left eye open, and in the first spar, Dempsey said he will have to call it a day.

The crowd who were watching, all loved Greb, Greb was said to look as strong as a young bull. And after a few more sparring sessions, that Greb also got the better of, Demspey just didn't want to know.

Hey, Greb even use to say to Dempsey,to his face, when you gonna fight me you bum''

So don't make out like, no one was avoiding Greb, and it was all Kearns. No it was ''DEMPSEY'' who was avoiding him. And to be honest it sounded to me like you don't think that highly of Greb, well Mr. LRR, I think you need to go and do your research on the great Harry Greb or buy his book......at least.

And no Tunney was not ducking Greb, as they eventually fought ......

And Harry Willis once seen Greb in action, as he was sitting at ringside, this was Greb past his prime. And Willis was speachless, as he cound't belive how good and fast Greb was........so I don't think he ever really would of wanted a showdown with Greb either.

do you think tyson ducked an old george foreman?

[Flicker Jab]

I wish there was more footage of greb, other than him sparring with Philadalphia Jack