The Lewis Era vs. The Klitschko Era

[ßringer]

I wrote this up and posted it in NSB, but I also want some....well, more informed answers than I'll be getting there. I look forward to the responses.

Ask any boxing fan about Lennox Lewis' ATG status and you'll generally get the same answer : Most people have him on their top 10 Heavyweight list of the greatest to ever do it.

Ask that same boxing fan about the Klitschko brothers' reign and the result will be.....Well, not exactly the same.

Throughout his career Lewis was generally looked upon with disdain by most in the boxing public : He fought once a year, he dominated his division, but yet people still defined that era as "post Tyson". Not to mention embarassing knockout losses to 2 contenders of his era : Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall. Lewis would go on to avenge both of those losses by knockout. But the damage to his reputation was already done.

In the years since Lennox has retired, a begrudging amount of respect has been bestowed upon the former Heavyweight kingpin : Most people now recognize his talents, and give full credit to his accomplishments.

Now look at the Klitschko brothers Era : They took the reigns after Lewis' retirement and have pretty much dominated it ever since. Vitali was looked upon as the stronger of the two for a while, but a 4 year retirement and numerous failed comebacks (thanks to repeated injury) thrust his brother Wladimir into the spotlight.

Wlad is a fighter very similar to Lewis : He's technical in his approach, not one for taking unnecessary risks in the ring, and he's pretty much dominated every opponet put infront of him. To top it off, he also has 2 embarassing knockout losses to contenders of his era Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders on his record. Unlike Lewis, Wladimir avenged only one of those losses, scoring a 6 round RTD over Lamon Brewster.

When casual boxing fans think of the Heavyweight division now, they generally say it's "gone south". Or that it's not nearly as good as eras past.

But was Lennox Lewis' era really that spectactular by comparison? What's the difference between Corrie Sanders and Oliver McCall? Is there one?

When it comes to the issue of legacy, most people consider Lewis to be the greatest of his era, and they list him as an "All Time Great" Heavyweight Champion. Fans and experts alike

When it comes time for Wladimir and Vitali to step aside, they can rest assured that they will go down as the greatest Heavyweights of their era.

But when it comes to "All Time Great" status, one must ask oneself: Would Lennox Lewis get the same amount of respect he gets today, if during his era, there were TWO Lennox Lewis' who fought in a similar style, dominated their opposition, but refused to face one another?

[StarshipTrooper]

You know, you've been posting in the wrong forum: You belong over here in Boxing History.

The biggest difference between the two eras is that Lennox was part of the 90s which was one of the strongest eras ever for Heavyweights. The Klitschko's are stuck in the 2000's: One of the weakest eras ever for Heavyweights.

Vitali will be hurt from missing multiple years off his prime because of injuries. Wlad, well, lets just say losses to the likes of Ross Purrity call into question his abilities: In all likelihood Wlad doesn't make it anywhere near the top in a strong division or win a belt even in a mediocre division. Vitali is certainly the better of the two fighters although I think he clearly falls short of ATG status. That being said he is clearly a near-great. Lennox, by comparison, is on the border between ATG and near-great. You have legitimate arguments for either and I go back and forth on it. He is clearly the best Heavyweight post Evander Holyfield's prime and if he had a better chin I would say he'd be considered the best Heavyweight since Larry Holmes.

Poet

[ßringer]

You know, you've been posting in the wrong forum: You belong over here in Boxing History.

The biggest difference between the two eras is that Lennox was part of the 90s which was one of the strongest eras ever for Heavyweights. The Klitschko's are stuck in the 2000's: One of the weakest eras EVER for Heavyweights.

Vitali will be hurt from missing multiple years off his prime because of injuries. Wlad, well, lets just say losses to the likes of Ross Purrity call into question his abilities: In all likelihood Wlad doesn't make it anywhere near the top in a strong division or win a belt even in a mediocre division. Vitali is certainly the better of the two fighters although I think he clearly falls short of ATG status. That being said he is clearly a near-great. Lennox, by comparison, is on the border between ATG and near-great. You have legitimate arguments for either and I go back and forth on it. He is clearly the best Heavyweight post Evander Holyfield's prime and if he had a better chin I would say he'd be considered the best Heavyweight since Larry Holmes.

Poet

First off, I really appreciate the compliment.

I'm in agreement with your assessment of both Wlad and Vitali's standings. The near 4 year layoff does quite a bit to hamper Vitali's status, and keeps him relegated to "near-great" status. Wlad on the other hand, could only hope to achieve such status.

Lewis I define as an "All Time Great". He just breaks my list at #10, with Holyfield taking place above him at #9.

I think Lewis would be the subject of a great deal more criticism if the scenario I suggested at the end of my post had played out. Which is why the Klitschko's draw such criticism now, coupled of course, with a weakened division.

[MANGLER]

But when it comes to "All Time Great" status, one must ask oneself: Would Lennox Lewis get the same amount of respect he gets today, if during his era, there were TWO Lennox Lewis' who fought in a similar style, dominated their opposition, but refused to face one another?

No. But nobody demands the K bros fight cuz they know damn well it won't happen. At this point, most people pretty much think of them as 1 and the same. The HW division had more names when LL was the man, and he beat em all. The fights overall during his run were more excitin than they are at HW right now. And the K bros get a pass on not fightin each other cuz they're brothers. If they each were the same fighters they are now by size and style but weren't related, cats would wanna see em scrap. If LL had a mirror image of himself around during his run and didn't fight him, of course he wouldn't get as much respect.

[ßringer]

No. But nobody demands the K bros fight cuz they know damn well it won't happen. At this point, most people pretty much think of them as 1 and the same. The HW division had more names when LL was the man, and he beat em all. The fights overall during his run were more excitin than they are at HW right now. And the K bros get a pass on not fightin each other cuz they're brothers. If they each were the same fighters they are now by size and style but weren't related, cats would wanna see em scrap. If LL had a mirror image of himself around during his run and didn't fight him, of course he wouldn't get as much respect.

Appreciate the input, and I agree on pretty much everything here. Especially the last sentence.

One guy in NSB thinks I'm insane already I guess, he says he has no idea what I'm talking about when I mentioned having 2 Lennox Lewis'.

Another guy just said it was the Haye era.....which is as hilarious as it is frightening.

[StarshipTrooper]

First off, I really appreciate the compliment.

I'm in agreement with your assessment of both Wlad and Vitali's standings. The near 4 year layoff does quite a bit to hamper Vitali's status, and keeps him relegated to "near-great" status. Wlad on the other hand, could only hope to achieve such status.

Lewis I define as an "All Time Great". He just breaks my list at #10, with Holyfield taking place above him at #9.

I think Lewis would be the subject of a great deal more criticism if the scenario I suggested at the end of my post had played out. Which is why the Klitschko's draw such criticism now, coupled of course, with a weakened division.

Of course, I remember when people DID rip Lennox (unfairly in my estimation). Much of it stemmed from the stereotype of the "horizontal" British Heavyweight. People in the States often compared him with Frank Bruno (and no, it wasn't a compliment). To me that was unfair to both fighters as I've always thought Bruno was a pretty good fighter not to mention being one of the hardest punchers in division history.

Interesting thing is my criticism of Lennox's chin has never been based on his two KO losses. The KO punch from Rahman would have dropped all but the best chins and I thought Lennox had a pretty good case for it being a premature stoppage against McCall. My criticisms of his chin come from the number of times I saw Lennox wobbled in OTHER fights by less than impressive punches. I also think he wasted half of his prime just relying on his physical gifts before finally hiring Manny Steward to teach him how to fight.

Poet

[ßringer]

Of course, I remember when people DID rip Lennox (unfairly in my estimation). Much of it stemmed from the stereotype of the "horizontal" British Heavyweight. People in the States often compared him with Frank Bruno (and no, it wasn't a compliment). To me that was unfair to both fighters as I've always thought Bruno was a pretty good fighter not to mention being one of the hardest punchers in division history.

Interesting thing is my criticism of Lennox's chin has never been based on his two KO losses. The KO punch from Rahman would have dropped all but the best chins and I thought Lennox had a pretty good case for it being a premature stoppage against McCall. My criticisms of his chin come from the number of times I saw Lennox wobbled in OTHER fights by less than impressive punches. I also think he wasted half of his prime just relying on his physical gifts before finally hiring Manny Steward to teach him how to fight.

Poet

I can see why you raise both points on Lewis' chin and wasting some of his prime.

As great as he was (or near-great, whatever stance you take), he likely could've been even better had he gotten with Emmanuel earlier than he opted to.

[StarshipTrooper]

I can see why you raise both points on Lewis' chin and wasting some of his prime.

As great as he was (or near-great, whatever stance you take), he likely could've been even better had he gotten with Emmanuel earlier than he opted to.

I remember watching the Lewis - Ruddock fight live on HBO. That was a young, pre-Steward Lewis. I remember thinking while watching it that Lennox's technique was all wrong and he held his right way to open. He didn't pay for it in that particular fight but I think the chickens came home to roost against McCall. In a sense, there WERE two Lennox Lewises: Pre and post Manny Steward.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

I can see why you raise both points on Lewis' chin and wasting some of his prime.

As great as he was (or near-great, whatever stance you take), he likely could've been even better had he gotten with Emmanuel earlier than he opted to.

BTW, THIS kind of discussion is what makes this forum the best on Boxing Scene. THIS is the elite forum for boxing. The occasional flame-out is just incidental diversions. Guys like Jab, Them Apples, Wmute, Hurricane, Manchine, Battling Nelson, and Thunder Lips all post here regularly (please forgive me for any elite posters I've forgotten to mention!).

Poet

[ßringer]

I remember watching the Lewis - Ruddock fight live on HBO. That was a young, pre-Steward Lewis. I remember thinking while watching it that Lennox's technique was all wrong and he held his right way to open. He didn't pay for it in that particular fight but I think the chickens came home to roost against McCall. In a sense, there WERE two Lennox Lewises: Pre and post Manny Steward.

Poet

So then, what if there were.....THREE Lennox Lewis'?

My favorite Lennox moment is without a doubt the Rahman revenge. The knockout he delivered to Hasim that night was just flat out brutal. I remember hearing those 2 shots land live on TV and I was surprised Rahman's head didn't come off.

One of my favorite Heavyweight knockouts of all time.