POLL: One heavyweight who would rule them all in any era

[StarshipTrooper]

"Ali doesn't fair too well when being hit hard. " Watch the left he takes from Cooper and especially the left he takes from Frazier. Most people would still be out.

I have to go with George, hes proved he can take it all in different eras. Joe Louis is one of the tyop CWs in history, but Big George knocks him out of his shoes. Some of these SHWs have the reach and power to keep boxers like Ali at bay, but Foreman is big enough and strong enough to catch up with any of these 6'6" 250lb+ boxers from the past 10yrs.

And people criticize Tyson for losing to Douglas the Douglas that beat Tyson gives any fighter on this poll trouble.

Cruiserweight is an illigitimate division. If you're over 175 your a Heavyweight.

Poet

[paul750]

Cruiserweight is an illigitimate division. If you're over 175 your a Heavyweight.

Poet

A heavyweight with little chance of success. There comes a point where you can be so much physically smaller it's simply too much to ask in modern times. These fellows need to build themselves up to a certain weight just to take a certain amount of punishment. Look at Chris Byrd [who I admire for his gonads], he thought he had at least be around the 208lb mark, and he's as skilled and slick as they've came. A 175lbs guy vs a 245lb skilled man is just too much for even the best.

Holyfield did pretty well at 205lb, but he was exceptional, and even then he had problems with Bowe.

[StarshipTrooper]

A heavyweight with little chance of success. There comes a point where you can be so much physically smaller it's simply too much to ask in modern times. These fellows need to build themselves up to a certain weight just to take a certain amount of punishment. Look at Chris Byrd [who I admire for his gonads], he thought he had at least be around the 208lb mark, and he's as skilled and slick as they've came. A 175lbs guy vs a 245lb skilled man is just too much for even the best.

Holyfield did pretty well at 205lb, but he was exceptional, and even then he had problems with Bowe.

There aren't very many legitimitately 245 lb fighters out there and those that are have serious flaws. If a "small" Heavyweight named Chagaev can kick the crap out of 7 foot 300+ lb Valuev than you have your answer. As someone pointed out ealier, most of these 250 lb Heavyweights are simply fat and should be fighting at 225. Wlad Klitschko is a 245 pound fighter with a glass jaw. Vitali is slow and clumsy and easy to hit. The point is there aren't any 245 monsters out there that are complete fighters.

Poet

[paul750]

There aren't very many legitimitately 245 lb fighters out there and those that are have serious flaws. If a "small" Heavyweight named Chagaev can kick the crap out of 7 foot 300+ lb Valuev than you have your answer. As someone pointed out ealier, most of these 250 lb Heavyweights are simply fat and should be fighting at 225. Wlad Klitschko is a 245 pound fighter with a glass jaw. Vitali is slow and clumsy and easy to hit. The point is there aren't any 245 monsters out there that are complete fighters.

Poet

Oh I agree with that, absolutely. People like Samuel Peter should be fighting at 225-230. I'll give the Klitschkos' one thing - they are in optimum fighting shape for their size. Valuev is just so freakish that it's maybe not fair to use him as an example. For instance I don't think even an exceptionally good 110lb fighter is going to beat even a rubbish 210lb fighter. It's just too ridiculous. The smaller heavyweights are still legit heavyweights. But as far as anyone below 200lbs beating a decent heavyweight? I suppose it's possible. Roy Jones did it fairly recently. But then again, it would have only been a matter of time before he took a bomb and put a dent in the canvas.

[StarshipTrooper]

Oh I agree with that, absolutely. People like Samuel Peter should be fighting at 225-230. I'll give the Klitschkos' one thing - they are in optimum fighting shape for their size. Valuev is just so freakish that it's maybe not fair to use him as an example. For instance I don't think even an exceptionally good 110lb fighter is going to beat even a rubbish 210lb fighter. It's just too ridiculous. The smaller heavyweights are still legit heavyweights. But as far as anyone below 200lbs beating a decent heavyweight? I suppose it's possible. Roy Jones did it fairly recently. But then again, it would have only been a matter of time before he took a bomb and put a dent in the canvas.

I would give Hopkins better chances as he has a far better chin than Jones had. Only problem is Hopkins is well past it and no longer an elite fighter. Valuev is just another specimen in a long line going back through Carnera and Willard: Large men who can't fight. With Heavyweights there would seem to be a point of diminishing returns as far as size is concerned with additional size providing less and less of advantage than say the difference between a Welterweight and a Featherweight.

Poet

[them_apples]

A heavyweight with little chance of success. There comes a point where you can be so much physically smaller it's simply too much to ask in modern times. These fellows need to build themselves up to a certain weight just to take a certain amount of punishment. Look at Chris Byrd [who I admire for his gonads], he thought he had at least be around the 208lb mark, and he's as skilled and slick as they've came. A 175lbs guy vs a 245lb skilled man is just too much for even the best.

Holyfield did pretty well at 205lb, but he was exceptional, and even then he had problems with Bowe.

Holyfield was only 205 (I thought he usually came in at 208) Because he was in elite physical condition. Holyfield while smaller, never looked severely undersized or weak.

There are only a few real SHW's. Lewis and Vitali are some I can think of. The others are fat. Foreman when he came back was 257 lbs, but it was fat, and even he wasn't as fat as Sam Peter, who weighed less. Ali walked around at what 235-240? he could have easily come in at that weight and still not have been as fat as Aereolla.

Tyson was 217, he was beating on SHW's w/ ease. Size doesn't matter as much when you can hit as hard as the heavyweights, the head doesn't grow in proportion ether, unless you are a freak (valuev). David Haye and Roy Jones look like they have middleweight heads on heavyweight bodies.

[StarshipTrooper]

Holyfield was only 205 (I thought he usually came in at 208) Because he was in elite physical condition. Holyfield while smaller, never looked severely undersized or weak.

There are only a few real SHW's. Lewis and Vitali are some I can think of. The others are fat. Foreman when he came back was 257 lbs, but it was fat, and even he wasn't as fat as Sam Peter, who weighed less. Ali walked around at what 235-240? he could have easily come in at that weight and still not have been as fat as Aereolla.

Tyson was 217, he was beating on SHW's w/ ease. Size doesn't matter as much when you can hit as hard as the heavyweights, the head doesn't grow in proportion ether, unless you are a freak (valuev). David Haye and Roy Jones look like they have middleweight heads on heavyweight bodies.

I would point out too that fat is dead weight: You gain no benefit from it and it hurts you conditioning wise. Lifting weights and bulking up is also self-defeating as it kills your reflexes: Something fighters depend heavily on so any benefit you gain from additional strength is off-set by the loss of reflexes. There is also a greater propensity for injury by bulking up to a weight your body wasn't naturally designed to carry: This is seen among linemen in the NFL where men who are naturally 260 pounds bulk up to well over 300. The unnatural weight puts severe stress loads on joints, bones,
and ligaments not designed to take those loads with predictable results.

Poet

[paul750]

I would give Hopkins better chances as he has a far better chin than Jones had. Only problem is Hopkins is well past it and no longer an elite fighter. Valuev is just another specimen in a long line going back through Carnera and Willard: Large men who can't fight. With Heavyweights there would seem to be a point of diminishing returns as far as size is concerned with additional size providing less and less of advantage than say the difference between a Welterweight and a Featherweight.

Poet

I sometimes think there should be a weight limit with the heavyweights, or at least some sort of evaluation before they fight to assess how fit they are - and if they're not deemed fit enough, a replacement could be brought in. Kirk Johnson, Danny Williams and Samuel Peter all fell into the same trap with Klitschko. Coming in like a whale doesn't work. I know Peter had muscle, but it was useless.

Holyfield was only 205 (I thought he usually came in at 208) Because he was in elite physical condition. Holyfield while smaller, never looked severely undersized or weak.

There are only a few real SHW's. Lewis and Vitali are some I can think of. The others are fat. Foreman when he came back was 257 lbs, but it was fat, and even he wasn't as fat as Sam Peter, who weighed less. Ali walked around at what 235-240? he could have easily come in at that weight and still not have been as fat as Aereolla.

Tyson was 217, he was beating on SHW's w/ ease. Size doesn't matter as much when you can hit as hard as the heavyweights, the head doesn't grow in proportion ether, unless you are a freak (valuev). David Haye and Roy Jones look like they have middleweight heads on heavyweight bodies.

I think it matters to a degree. Chris Byrd, for example, may not have been able to take the shots he did if he weighed 180lbs. A thicker neck and structure can help up to an extent. But I do agree it's overrated for the most part.

[them_apples]

I would point out too that fat is dead weight: You gain no benefit from it and it hurts you conditioning wise. Lifting weights and bulking up is also self-defeating as it kills your reflexes: Something fighters depend heavily on so any benefit you gain from additional strength is off-set by the loss of reflexes. There is also a greater propensity for injury by bulking up to a weight your body wasn't naturally designed to carry: This is seen among linemen in the NFL where men who are naturally 260 pounds bulk up to well over 300. The unnatural weight puts severe stress loads on joints, bones,
and ligaments not designed to take those loads with predictable results.

Poet

Weights will not kill your reflexes when used properly. A lot of athletes use resistance training. For boxing, high weights and low reps are used. A lot of explosive force is required as opposed to typical 10 rep weight lifting that body builders use.

Boxers need a balance of anaerobic and aerobic training. An example would be Sprinting..then walking..then sprinting etc, it get's the body used to using lots of energy then slowing down (rest periods) the running simply helps a fighter make weight and gives him re -cooperative abilities.

The quickest fighters to date have used resistance training (weights), Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones jr, even Ray Leonard was using bits and pieces of it.

Power lifters are incredibly strong, but they aren't that bulky. I will agree that getting too big on a small frame will slow you down and tire you out, but in most cases the fighter has some room to gain some strength. Shane Mosley was the smaller guy against Margarito, but he was much stronger ( and it showed). If you can make weight at 122 and be benching 200+ lbs, why not?

Last but not least, it comes down to what the fighter is born with, Ali and Robinson for example.

[AKATheMack]

There aren't very many legitimitately 245 lb fighters out there and those that are have serious flaws. If a "small" Heavyweight named Chagaev can kick the crap out of 7 foot 300+ lb Valuev than you have your answer. As someone pointed out ealier, most of these 250 lb Heavyweights are simply fat and should be fighting at 225. Wlad Klitschko is a 245 pound fighter with a glass jaw. Vitali is slow and clumsy and easy to hit. The point is there aren't any 245 monsters out there that are complete fighters.

Poet

Vitali can afford to be easy to hit. I hear about how hard Louis hit, but Im willing to bet he wouldnt put down Vit. Wlad is an overall better fighter than Schmeling, and Wlads right hand would end Louis' career.