If there was a rematch between Ali and Foreman...

[Brockton Lip]

Ali would most likely win again. If Foreman goes on an all out attack like he did in their 74' fight, he gets stopped again. If he paces himself and doesn't attack as much, Ali would outbox him.

[LondonRingRules]

Ali would most likely win again.

** Ali enters his absolute worst phase of his career after the Foreman fight.

Foreman, like any undefeated highly touted fighter including Ali, goes into a funk after being upset, but everyone knows about his championship heart, and the record shows he was completely obsessed with getting Ali back into the ring.

This starts with post fight taped interviews where a relaxed, philosophical Foreman wants a rematch, and a tense, defensive Ali puts off the question, claiming he might well retire. Ring ran a 30th anniversary piece which included interviews and relevant witness in the day, as well as a current interview with Foreman. Ali obviously was unavailable for an interview.

Ali mentions a 10 mil 50/50 split offer from a black Indonesian oilman in his November Playboy interview which had to have held up publication, so they could interview Ali days after his win. Ali is noncommittal in the interview, but a bit more expansive and positive.

Foreman in every interview, starting from his Canadian exhibition which Ali attends and taunts him at, makes the rematch front and center. Sports Illustrated features him on the front cover, calling out Ali, something never accorded a losing fighter that I can recall.

Ali fights Wepner, Lyle, Bugner, Frazier, Coopman, Young, Dunn, Norton in this time frame before Foreman retires and takes heavy punishment against all but Coopman, Young, Dunn. He was completely outworked and clowned by Young though, and Lyle and Norton were also controversial wins. Wepner, Coopman, and Dunn were not even fringe contenders.

He's not the same fighter anymore, and I recall an interview by Ferdie where he notices a distinct decline in Ali after Foreman and that the team was against the rematch.

Taking on 4 quality heavies in the 2.5 yrs after the Foreman fight somewhat absolves Ali of not making the match, but obviously Foreman is the big money fight and only Frazier and Norton could be said to have been near his class as a fighter in this time frame.

I've always favored Foreman in the rematch because of the fluke nature of the first fight who's conditions could never be reproduced. As far as the scoring of the fight goes, I recall an article many years ago from back in the day that showed Foreman ahead on 2 of 3 cards in close fight on the cards. Since then Boxrec has changed the scoring on the fight many times. Given this was King's first promotion held in a 3rd world backwater run by a genocidal strongman dictator under contrversial conditions, I wouldn't trust any scoring at this point even if the Pope certifies it.

Foreman, never a graceful fighter, looked incredibly clumsy for the fight even though Ali was dead square in front of him getting whacked from every point. Foreman couldn't spar for a month of the delay because of his cut and it showed.

I regard this as Ali's finest moment, and just look at the rankings. Ali vaults from outside all time top 10 rankings to the #1 slot after this fight, which should give everyone a clue about the fickle and inexplicable nature of boxing's wiseguys that decide this nonsense.

So, Ali owes Foreman a debt, and George admits that he owes Ali for sending him into this funk where he has to go into the wilderness and draw upon his faith to come out a stronger man and everyone's favorite icon today.

Damned shame about Jimmy Young though. His window of opportunity was narrow, but he really did a number on the two top fighters of the era who had completely disparate styles. He should've gotten another title shot before he self destructed. Norton also treated shabbily by boxing at his best. Myself and many thought he won all 3 against Ali, the first two fairly handily.

C'st la vie..........

[Clegg]

Regarding the Ali-Lyle fight, was there any particular reason that Lyle was given the chance to fight for the title ahead of the other leading contenders?

He was coming off of a loss to Jimmy Young, which makes it a bit unusual that he was given a title shot.

[TheGreatA]

Regarding the Ali-Lyle fight, was there any particular reason that Lyle was given the chance to fight for the title ahead of the other leading contenders?

He was coming off of a loss to Jimmy Young, which makes it a bit unusual that he was given a title shot.

Ali defended his title 3 times in a span of 3 months (almost unheard of today) against Wepner, Lyle and Bugner after defeating Foreman and before taking on Joe Frazier. It was supposed to be an easy fight but Lyle was better than they thought he was.


I don't find the stoppage as controversial as others do, atleast on today's standards. Lyle should've punched back.


Not long after this Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.

[Clegg]

Thanks TheManchine.

I didn't know that Ali ever had such a hectic schedule, 41 rounds in 3 months!

I think that the stoppage was reasonable. I'm not sure how hurt he was, but he took a lot of punches without throwing anything back, and his legs looked to be a bit shaky. Maybe slightly premature, but I've seen a lot worse.

I also found the Foreman interview very interesting. I haven't seen much of him being interviewed inbetween the Ali loss and his first retirement.

[Silencers]

I'm really not sure, Ali started to get a bit lazy in training and normally went into fight a bit out of shape after the Foreman fight, then again, Foreman was not the same mentally after the Ali fight and didn't look as devastating as he did before it so it's hard to say.

And the scorecards for the fight were crazy, Foreman definitely won more than 1 round.