Srl Goat

[them_apples]

Sugar ray ROBINSON is the greatest

I disagree, I don't think Robinsons competition was as good as Leonards. I could care less how many wins or losses he's got.

[wpink1]

i disagree in an era where people had long careers Leonard fought 40 times. he ducked Hagler and only fought him when he was past his peak after watching his performance with Mugabi. Leonard wasnt a very active fighter at his peak i give him credit for his notable victories but he isnt the goat and doesnt make my p4p top 5 of all time

Couple of things....First off in regards to the quote that leonard handed Duran his first loss, it actually was the other way around. Duran had already loss to Dejesus, Leonard was undefeated entering their 1st fightl.

While Ray is my favorite of all time (thats obvious), he is nowhere near the greatest of all time. I do not agree with this above post that knocks him for only having 40 fights, however. If you look at the quality of Rays fights, I dont think you can name one other fighter since Ali that has fought and beaten the quality of fighters Ray Leonard has. Also, You have fighters like Duran, Chavez who have 100 fights, but the difference between Leonard and them, is that they (check the facts) fought a lot of fightes who were sparring level type of fighters. Even after they where champions, they continued to padd their records fighting fihters with records of 10-12, 18-12, etc.... I saw on Durans record a fighter with a record of 1-3 after he was a champ

Each time Ray got in the ring after he fought for the NABC title vs Pete Ranzanny it was vs a good fighter, and most of the time vs a great one. Ray did not pad his record one bit, and what we fail to remember is that he was robbed of his best 5 years...27 to 32. We make mention of how much we missed by Ali not being able to fight for 3 years. Well What about Leonard. He missed the 5 years where he should have been at his physical best, and he still beat 4 top 50 pound per pound all time... WOW, and won 6 titles in 5 division, unifying the Welterweight title at a time where is was its very best.

As for the continuous FALSE haterism statment that Hagler was past his prime. BASED ON WHAT!

Yes he mentioned that he had lost some of desire to fight, but He for sure got it back to fight Leonard, He said so himself. He had all he reasons there for this to be his biggest fight. Tie or Break the middleweight defense record. Beat Leonard, and thus be annointed the king of the big 4.

Facts check

• Hagler was 32 when they fought
• Hagler had not lost in 10 years when they fought
• He was well rested having fought on average 1 fight every 10 months over the past 3 years.
• He had just beaten the best 3 fighters he had ever had to face, and all where by ko....vs earlier in his career he had a draw with Antefermo, close call with Duran, some losses......Hmmmm Based on what happened in the ring, doesnt look like he slipped.
• Mugabie was undefeated 25-0 with 25 ko's I believe. Hagler was always able to be hit. Hagler stopped mugabi in a brutal fight, where he was hit yes, but he was showing the most effective aggression and wore Mugabi down. Hagler was never a Mayweather making peopel miss, he ws known for having a great chin. I ask did he ever go down or was seriously hurt in the fights leading up to Leonard?
• Ray was off for 5 years with only 1 fight at jr middle last time vs a journeyman and was dropped.
• Ray moved up 2 weight classes from his natural weight to fight hagler.
• 12 rounds was the liimit that hagler had fought vs Hearns, and mugabi and hamsho....

I think people like the gentleman above seem to get on a bandwagon, with out checking the facts.....It is simply those who hated Leonard's arrogance and yes he punked out of offering Hagler a rematch, but at the time of the fight Hagler was widely regarded as #1 pound per pound, and he was almost unanamously thought off a ko'ing leonard going into the fight. Only after Ray won, did all this hagler was not at his peak false stuff start. If he is not at his peak then what about Ray. How about every other 31-32 year old fighter and we have to discredit all of them for their fights too...

Ray IMO is top 5 after Robinson, Ali, both should be above cuz they beat top quality fighters the level of ray quality and they had more fights and defense..Key word AND.....

Armstrong
Grebb
Sugar Ray leonard
Duran,
Roy Jones,
Willie pep
Joe louis
Pernel Whitacker (great boxer and resume)

Oh yea since when are you guilty of ducking a fighter 2 weight classes above you. One final thing, how did he duck him when he only had one fight after the heans fight and then had to step aside due to retinal damage, then came back and FOUGHT HIM with out tune up. I guess your thinking that leonard got better since 1982 while he was inactive, and hagler got worse since 1982. Hmmmmmmmmm

[them_apples]

Couple of things....First off in regards to the quote that leonard handed Duran his first loss, it actually was the other way around. Duran had already loss to Dejesus, Leonard was undefeated entering their 1st fightl.

While Ray is my favorite of all time (thats obvious), he is nowhere near the greatest of all time. I do not agree with this above post that knocks him for only having 40 fights, however. If you look at the quality of Rays fights, I dont think you can name one other fighter since Ali that has fought and beaten the quality of fighters Ray Leonard has. Also, You have fighters like Duran, Chavez who have 100 fights, but the difference between Leonard and them, is that they (check the facts) fought a lot of fightes who were sparring level type of fighters. Even after they where champions, they continued to padd their records fighting fihters with records of 10-12, 18-12, etc.... I saw on Durans record a fighter with a record of 1-3 after he was a champ

Each time Ray got in the ring after he fought for the NABC title vs Pete Ranzanny it was vs a good fighter, and most of the time vs a great one. Ray did not pad his record one bit, and what we fail to remember is that he was robbed of his best 5 years...27 to 32. We make mention of how much we missed by Ali not being able to fight for 3 years. Well What about Leonard. He missed the 5 years where he should have been at his physical best, and he still beat 4 top 50 pound per pound all time... WOW, and won 6 titles in 5 division, unifying the Welterweight title at a time where is was its very best.

As for the continuous FALSE haterism statment that Hagler was past his prime. BASED ON WHAT!

Yes he mentioned that he had lost some of desire to fight, but He for sure got it back to fight Leonard, He said so himself. He had all he reasons there for this to be his biggest fight. Tie or Break the middleweight defense record. Beat Leonard, and thus be annointed the king of the big 4.

Facts check

• Hagler was 32 when they fought
• Hagler had not lost in 10 years when they fought
• He was well rested having fought on average 1 fight every 10 months over the past 3 years.
• He had just beaten the best 3 fighters he had ever had to face, and all where by ko....vs earlier in his career he had a draw with Antefermo, close call with Duran, some losses......Hmmmm Based on what happened in the ring, doesnt look like he slipped.
• Mugabie was undefeated 25-0 with 25 ko's I believe. Hagler was always able to be hit. Hagler stopped mugabi in a brutal fight, where he was hit yes, but he was showing the most effective aggression and wore Mugabi down. Hagler was never a Mayweather making peopel miss, he ws known for having a great chin. I ask did he ever go down or was seriously hurt in the fights leading up to Leonard?
• Ray was off for 5 years with only 1 fight at jr middle last time vs a journeyman and was dropped.
• Ray moved up 2 weight classes from his natural weight to fight hagler.
• 12 rounds was the liimit that hagler had fought vs Hearns, and mugabi and hamsho....

I think people like the gentleman above seem to get on a bandwagon, with out checking the facts.....It is simply those who hated Leonard's arrogance and yes he punked out of offering Hagler a rematch, but at the time of the fight Hagler was widely regarded as #1 pound per pound, and he was almost unanamously thought off a ko'ing leonard going into the fight. Only after Ray won, did all this hagler was not at his peak false stuff start. If he is not at his peak then what about Ray. How about every other 31-32 year old fighter and we have to discredit all of them for their fights too...

Ray IMO is top 5 after Robinson, Ali, both should be above cuz they beat top quality fighters the level of ray quality and they had more fights and defense..Key word AND.....

Armstrong
Grebb
Sugar Ray leonard
Duran,
Roy Jones,
Willie pep

Joe louis
Pernel Whitacker (great boxer and resume)

Oh yea since when are you guilty of ducking a fighter 2 weight classes above you. One final thing, how did he duck him when he only had one fight after the heans fight and then had to step aside due to retinal damage, then came back and FOUGHT HIM with out tune up. I guess your thinking that leonard got better since 1982 while he was inactive, and hagler got worse since 1982. Hmmmmmmmmm

p4p status wise he seems like he's done more than Ali...IMO of course

[wpink1]

As much as I love leoanrd.... Ali dominated 2 decades. He beat fighters liston, patterson, frazier, foremen, norton, shavers. He faced ALL... i mean ALL comers, over 17 years and beat them all. Also, he lost 3 years off of his prime too....

[wmute]

who is the greatest of all time in any division, based on resume and the quality of opponents they fought?

For me It's SRL, he handed Duran his first loss (well aside from when he was a young blood), then made him quit, he beat Marvin Hagler who dwarfed him and was possibly the best middleweight to date, he beat Thomas Hearns in a punching match and showed great heart and chin.

Those were his 3 biggest wins, all elite fighters..some are lucky to have even one win over an elite fighter. He has a slew of solid fighters to just to beef up his resume.

For me I have him over Ali because Ali's wins were from direct style match ups suited for him (deliberately running and fighting slower fighters) I feel if he fought another fighter with fast hands he'd be in trouble. Leonard on the other hand took on Hearns, who was just as fast as him and punched harder.

I am not even getting on this, but my 2 cents on SRL beign the greatest are

NO WAY

[wpink1]

I am not even getting on this, but my 2 cents on SRL beign the greatest are

NO WAY

agree. Leoanrd is not the greatest of all time, he would even tell you that.

[wmute]

agree. Leoanrd is not the greatest of all time, he would even tell you that.

he actually said that wrt the comparison with the other sugar ray. or at least someone had it in their signature

[warp1432]

agree. Leoanrd is not the greatest of all time, he would even tell you that.

Wait.....you two aren't the same guy?

[wmute]

Wait.....you two aren't the same guy?

where did you get the idea from? you were also asking when i was asking about linares.

[wmute]

Facts double check

• Hagler had 66 pro fights by the time he met Leonard

Facts check

• Hagler was 32 when they fought and turning 33 in a month
• Hagler had not lost in 10 years when they fought and was in his 15th year as a pro
• He was well rested having fought on average 1 fight every 10 months over the past 3 years. since when is that considered a good thing, fighters are less sharp when they fight less often, so was Hagler
  
• He had just beaten the best 3 fighters he had ever had to face, and all where by ko....vs earlier in his career he had a draw with Antefermo, close call with Duran, some losses......Hmmmm Based on what happened in the ring, doesnt look like he slipped. It is well known that after the fight with Antuofermo and even moreso later on Hagler was not content with decision. Also, it is entirely debatable that those are the 3 best fighters he faced. Hamsho better than Duran? none of the 70s division was better at 160 than Mugabi?
  
• Mugabie was undefeated 25-0 with 25 ko's I believe. Hagler was always able to be hit. Hagler stopped mugabi in a brutal fight, where he was hit yes, but he was showing the most effective aggression and wore Mugabi down. Hagler was never a Mayweather making peopel miss, he ws known for having a great chin. I ask did he ever go down or was seriously hurt in the fights leading up to Leonard?
  
  Hagler was never hurt in his entire career, so the fact that he was not hurt before fighting Leonard doesnt mean much. If anything Hearns landing that right hand in round 1 is the most hurt you will ever see Hagler.
  
  Earlier on he would not get hit as much as he did in the Hearns and Mugabi fight (In fact I would say that the Mugabi fight was like 4-5 of his 70s fights in terms of punishment absorbed). In fact he used to box a lot more than he did later on. With age you lose speed and reflexes, long before power and chin
  
• Ray was off for 5 years with only 1 fight at jr middle last time vs a journeyman and was dropped. So, by your coin he was well rested
• Ray moved up 2 weight classes from his natural weight to fight hagler. Leonard could not make 147 by then, so make it 1 class
• 12 rounds was the liimit that hagler had fought vs Hearns, and mugabi and hamsho.... just Hearns and Mugabi and 15 rounders were still sanctioned by then

On top of that, it has been reported that by the mid 80s Hagler got ”softer“ (relatively speaking of course. so he was probably trainig like the ”average“ world champion) in training. No running with weighted boots, no isolation in cape cod and so on...