Tyson being past his prime when Douglas beat him???

[The Iron Man]

• You name one fight where Tyson beat a great prime fighter.
• Name one fight where tyson beat someone as good as liston, frazier,Foremen, Shavers, Norton,
• Name one fighter where tyson was rocked and he came on show his toughness
• Name one fight where he had someone who was as tough mentally and physically and he prevailed, in fact did not wimp out.

1) This could be up for argument. But A few fighters considerd great didnt beat any other great fighters. Holmes may not have been as great as he was, but no bum can beat holmes. Spinks was a very established fighter more at light heavy but won two decisions over larry holmes. Tyson beat all the top contenders and top fighters of that time to unite all the titles.
2)Ruddock, Tucker, Spinks, Possibly holmes at that stage was as good as shavers or norton.
3)Bruno, Smith, Ruddock.
4)Ruddock, Bruno, Holmes, Ribalta,

[wpink1]

1) This could be up for argument. But A few fighters considerd great didnt beat any other great fighters. Holmes may not have been as great as he was, but no bum can beat holmes. Spinks was a very established fighter more at light heavy but won two decisions over larry holmes. Tyson beat all the top contenders and top fighters of that time to unite all the titles.
2)Ruddock, Tucker, Spinks, Possibly holmes at that stage was as good as shavers or norton.
3)Bruno, Smith, Ruddock.
4)Ruddock, Bruno, Holmes, Ribalta,

Yeh there a a lot of fighters that have not beaten great fighters. My point was in discrediting LondenRules weak arguement about Tyson having beaten the quality of fighters that Ali had. HE HAS NOT!

Ruddock and the others you named are good fighters, may be equal to a Norton, but not liston, Foreman, Frazier, or Shavers. Tyson may have caught some good shots, but each time I saw him really get caught, he never recovered. I am not simply taking about a good punc, I am talking about a punch that really caused some damage. I have seen ali comeback many timesfrom taking a great punch. In Tyson once he got hit by a great punch, or even if someone match his confidence and backed him up, you could see the focus, heart and confidence that intimidation factor go right out the window in front your eyes...Tyson was tough, and for 3-4 rounds I would put him up there with anyone, but against a Ali, Holyfield, Lewis etc..Tyson just does not measure up, he wimps out.

[The Iron Man]

Yeh there a a lot of fighters that have not beaten great fighters. My point was in discrediting LondenRules weak arguement about Tyson having beaten the quality of fighters that Ali had. HE HAS NOT!

In that Respect i 100% agree with you there, not other heavy fought the quality of opposition that Ali did. And to come out on top against all of the opponents shows how great he was.

Ruddock and the others you named are good fighters, may be equal to a Norton, but not liston, Foreman, Frazier, or Shavers.

I would say that they were equal to a shavers aswell.

Tyson may have caught some good shots, but each time I saw him really get caught, he never recovered. I am not simply taking about a good punc, I am talking about a punch that really caused some damage.

Is this not proof of tysons good chin? Quoting Brunos Autobiography the hook he caught tyson with was the best his thrown. Ruddock hit tyson with bombs, Bonecrusher smith could punch aswell. He took the best shots of all these men and they hit DAMN hard. He was shaken by Bruno badly and fought on, the same with Smith and Ruddock so i think that it an unfair statement.

In Tyson once he got hit by a great punch, or even if someone match his confidence and backed him up, you could see the focus, heart and confidence that intimidation factor go right out the window in front your eyes...

I agree partly, however i believed what disheartend tyson was not getting hit, he could take a punch. It was them taking his best shots and comming back. When he didnt break there will his was able to be broken. Although i only really saw this after prison, against douglas he kept fighting kept trying to find those uppercuts..he just was not there. Against Holyfield he gave up.

[pedro1098]

good call..for me tyson was slow that night & jd had a plan that worked! for me tyson was at his best on the night he met spinks,

[THE REED]

If your the youngest HW champion in the history of the sport

that accolade alone will always give you atg status


Tyson was not past his prime, but to me, cus being out of the picture is what ruined him

A big part of tysons game was his bobbing and weaving head movement, something cus instilled in him, unfortunately when cus was gone, Tyson disgarded these tactics and had a more head to head approach... which... for someone like douglas on that night was the worst thing ever...

If Tyson still had the bobbing and weaving and sharp fast headmovement to evade busters jab like he did all the fights before, I believe he wouldnt of taken as much punishment and wouldnt of been as fatigued, and possibly could of finished buster off

I think the fight had just as much to do with tysons lack of... as it did with busters willingness

[The Iron Man]

If your the youngest HW champion in the history of the sport

that accolade alone will always give you atg status


Tyson was not past his prime, but to me, cus being out of the picture is what ruined him

A big part of tysons game was his bobbing and weaving head movement, something cus instilled in him, unfortunately when cus was gone, Tyson disgarded these tactics and had a more head to head approach... which... for someone like douglas on that night was the worst thing ever...

If Tyson still had the bobbing and weaving and sharp fast headmovement to evade busters jab like he did all the fights before, I believe he wouldnt of taken as much punishment and wouldnt of been as fatigued, and possibly could of finished buster off

I think the fight had just as much to do with tysons lack of... as it did with busters willingness

I agree to a degree, Cus died very early in tysons career before he became champ. And he was still bobbing and weaving, i think the biggest downfall was the death of Jim Jacobs which resulted in the loss of Kevin Rooney, Steve Lott and Bill Cayton. Which paved the way for givens, don king and all the other scum.

[Kid McCoy]

Yeh there a a lot of fighters that have not beaten great fighters. My point was in discrediting LondenRules weak arguement about Tyson having beaten the quality of fighters that Ali had. HE HAS NOT!

Ruddock and the others you named are good fighters, may be equal to a Norton, but not liston, Foreman, Frazier, or Shavers. Tyson may have caught some good shots, but each time I saw him really get caught, he never recovered. I am not simply taking about a good punc, I am talking about a punch that really caused some damage. I have seen ali comeback many timesfrom taking a great punch. In Tyson once he got hit by a great punch, or even if someone match his confidence and backed him up, you could see the focus, heart and confidence that intimidation factor go right out the window in front your eyes...Tyson was tough, and for 3-4 rounds I would put him up there with anyone, but against a Ali, Holyfield, Lewis etc..Tyson just does not measure up, he wimps out.

I wouldn't say Tyson beat a great fighter, but he did some fight good tough contenders. Spinks, Tubbs and Thomas had never been stopped before, and he scored devastating KOs of them all. I know Holmes was old, but I don't think his chin had deteriorated much, and as he showed later against Holyfield, Mercer and McCall, he was still a pretty effective fighter in old age, and Tyson was the only KO loss of his career.

Tony Tucker was 35-0, 6'5", 230lb, good punch, good chin and his only losses in his first 50 bouts were to prime Tyson and Lewis, going the distance both times, and Tyson won by a lopsided decision. Alex Stewart, Razor Ruddock were good wins too. These were all good fighters, but Tyson won so convincingly against most of them it just made them look bad. He gets criticized for the lack of come from behind wins, but it's difficult to come from behind when you're always in front, as he usually was at his peak. Tucker, Ruddock, Bruno, Smith were all decent ****ers who caught him with good shots, which he just walked through.

I wouldn't call Earnie Shavers a 'great' fighter. Hard puncher, but his chin and stamina were questionable, his best win was over a faded Norton, and he managed to lose to guys like Ron Stander and Tex Cobb.

Also, the Sonny Liston who Ali beat was not the same Liston who decimated the heavyweight division in the late 50s. He was probably several years older than he claimed, and both fights had fishy outcomes for me.

[Arka]

I don't know whether he was in his prime or not but there was an alarming deterioration after Rooney left him in 88.He nearly gets creamed by Bruno,with a left hook in the first round of their fight.If it was a Liston he wouldn't have heard the bell for the end of the first round.
To my mind his peak years were upto 88-very difficult to hit clean and technically the best combination puncher the heavyweight division has seen since Joe Louis.
One more thing I think it was the style in which he beat the fighters in his early years more than the greatness or otherwise of the opposition.