My Top 10 All Time P4p.

[wpink1]

Mwmerlino.....if you dont want to debate...then dont get on here..That is what this is..Debate.....List your opinion and support it, and be prepared to debate...

Slick southpaw.... Hearns could not even handle My favorites fighers of all times punches at welter....What make you think he would be able to dealwith a faster, stronger, harder hitting middleweight in Jones.

Hagler had issues with Duran, and leoanrd, both who boxed him..leonard used mobility, and contrary to popular believe he was only 32 a well rested 32 at that. If you think hagler was easy to hit by antefermo, or Leanard, Jones would tee off on him all night long, and was much harder to hit than anyone Hagler ever fought.

I agree with you regarding fighters that Roy didnt face. I use to make that arguement. However when I was able to meet Dundee at a Junior Golden glvoes event roughly 10 years 7 years ago, i asked him about Jones and then his not fighint certain fighters, and me forced to realize a couple of things.. First of all, most of the fighter avoided jones. Benn was not willing to fight Roy. He openly said he did not want to fight Roy. Dm wanted the fight to take place over in Germany, and Roy equally as stubborn wanted the fight here,,so they both are the blame. Nunn had just been beaten by Toney, and Roy fought the winner...With your flawed strategy, then Leonard should be faulted for not fighting Cuevas who lost to hearns,,,and/or Palimino who lost to Benetiz.

Dundee said and I believe him that Roy's awkwardness, speed and power at middleweight virtually left him unbeateable, (Duran told Vinny Pazienza the same thing before they fought). Yes he made a lot of mistakes, and the theory is his jaw was weak, the problem is his instincts (which you can not discredit) allowed him to make these mistakes and not get hit.

At the time Dundee and leonard was estranged....(funny Ray was there at the fights too, I wanted to meet him but I could not..I was with Jimmy matz who had sparred with him and Jimmy introduced me to Angelo)..Dundee stated and I will try my best to quote...Jones would have a heyday fighting Napoles and leonard because of his awkwardness and speed mixed with power..I read somewhere where leoanrd said that the big four was blessed that Roy was not around when they fought because of his awkwardness mixed in with other things...

Roy was the real deal, Yes we can say who he didnt face..but none of these would be favord vs him....You can say this about anyone,,Leonard didnt face cuevax, palimino...etc..Duran didnt face Pryor, Sanchez, etc... Hagler didnt face quawi ( he never challenged himself and moved up). How about looking at who he did face and he faced more world title holders at the 3 divisions than other greats such as hagler, leonard, hearns. He also easily beat Toney and Hopkins... Finally you leave out he moved up and was beating very good fighter...Leonard moved up and beat one great figher,,,actually lost to a fighter that moved up to him...Duran lost at his orginal weight..hearns lost at welter weight..hagler lost several fights at middleweight...

I think you need to revist Jones....

[wpink1]

Just looked at some footage of Jones.....wow

[Panamaniac]

The thread is called "MY TOP 10 ALL TIME P4P"

So why is everyone getting butt hurt over other peoples lists? Some people want to put only p4p fighters that they've actually seen box on their list, or fighters that are relevant to boxing today and not 50+ years ago. I miss and adore the old school of boxing just as much as the next man but do we really need to argue about putting Greb's blind ass in every P4P list just because we read about all of his exploits?

Get a grip. These lists are PERSONAL not DEBATABLE.

I, for one, agree with you wholeheartedly. As a rule, the object of this forum is for debate (as Pinky stated), but there are threads that are an exception to this rule: Any thread soliciting the personal opinion of forumers with regard to their favorites is subjective and warrants no debate. Some people like apple pie, while others prefer lemon. Not debatable!

[J_CON]

Sort of a lot of overrated older fighter that would get their ass wooped by newer better p4p fighters.


Jones Jr
Mayweather
Pacquaio
Ray Leonard
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield

in no particular order

[C.Y.]

Mwmerlino.....if you dont want to debate...then dont get on here..That is what this is..Debate.....List your opinion and support it, and be prepared to debate...

Slick southpaw.... Hearns could not even handle My favorites fighers of all times punches at welter....What make you think he would be able to dealwith a faster, stronger, harder hitting middleweight in Jones.

Hagler had issues with Duran, and leoanrd, both who boxed him..leonard used mobility, and contrary to popular believe he was only 32 a well rested 32 at that. If you think hagler was easy to hit by antefermo, or Leanard, Jones would tee off on him all night long, and was much harder to hit than anyone Hagler ever fought.

I agree with you regarding fighters that Roy didnt face. I use to make that arguement. However when I was able to meet Dundee at a Junior Golden glvoes event roughly 10 years 7 years ago, i asked him about Jones and then his not fighint certain fighters, and me forced to realize a couple of things.. First of all, most of the fighter avoided jones. Benn was not willing to fight Roy. He openly said he did not want to fight Roy. Dm wanted the fight to take place over in Germany, and Roy equally as stubborn wanted the fight here,,so they both are the blame. Nunn had just been beaten by Toney, and Roy fought the winner...With your flawed strategy, then Leonard should be faulted for not fighting Cuevas who lost to hearns,,,and/or Palimino who lost to Benetiz.

Dundee said and I believe him that Roy's awkwardness, speed and power at middleweight virtually left him unbeateable, (Duran told Vinny Pazienza the same thing before they fought). Yes he made a lot of mistakes, and the theory is his jaw was weak, the problem is his instincts (which you can not discredit) allowed him to make these mistakes and not get hit.

At the time Dundee and leonard was estranged....(funny Ray was there at the fights too, I wanted to meet him but I could not..I was with Jimmy matz who had sparred with him and Jimmy introduced me to Angelo)..Dundee stated and I will try my best to quote...Jones would have a heyday fighting Napoles and leonard because of his awkwardness and speed mixed with power..I read somewhere where leoanrd said that the big four was blessed that Roy was not around when they fought because of his awkwardness mixed in with other things...

Roy was the real deal, Yes we can say who he didnt face..but none of these would be favord vs him....You can say this about anyone,,Leonard didnt face cuevax, palimino...etc..Duran didnt face Pryor, Sanchez, etc... Hagler didnt face quawi ( he never challenged himself and moved up). How about looking at who he did face and he faced more world title holders at the 3 divisions than other greats such as hagler, leonard, hearns. He also easily beat Toney and Hopkins... Finally you leave out he moved up and was beating very good fighter...Leonard moved up and beat one great figher,,,actually lost to a fighter that moved up to him...Duran lost at his orginal weight..hearns lost at welter weight..hagler lost several fights at middleweight...

I think you need to revist Jones....

great post

[slicksouthpaw16]

Slick southpaw.... Hearns could not even handle My favorites fighers of all times punches at welter....What make you think he would be able to dealwith a faster, stronger, harder hitting middleweight in Jones.

What makes me think that Hearns could beat Jones? Simply because Jones fought cautious against elite fighters that had punching power and he was green at middleweight. Take a look back at every fighter that Jones respected and boxed carefully at the lower weights. Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Lou Dell valle ect. You are not beating Hearns in a techncal battle, which Hagler and Ray Leonard both found out. They both had to bring the fight to him and make a fight out it becuase they knew that they would be out boxed from a distance. Do you really think that Jones is bringing the fight to Hearns? Something that he has never done to a puncher with boxing ability. Barkely, Hagler, Leonard ect all turned ****er to get Hearns out.

I also don't think that Jones had the best chin even when he was in his prime. Timing beats speed. Dispite all of that speed and athleticism, Jones would catch counters from Hearns and i can't see his chin holding up. Look at Forrest vs Mosley or Barrera vs Hamed, the straight accurate technical boxers always beats the speed fighters. Hearns was the best pure boxer that i have ever seen.

Watch his legs when he was caught on the button for the first time with a hard shot when he was peaking.

Hagler had issues with Duran, and leoanrd, both who boxed him..leonard used mobility, and contrary to popular believe he was only 32 a well rested 32 at that. If you think hagler was easy to hit by antefermo, or Leanard, Jones would tee off on him all night long, and was much harder to hit than anyone Hagler ever fought.

Agreed, although Hagler being past his prime and lossing his speed, reflexes and mobility may have something to do with it. He retired after the Leonard fight for a reason. Not just frustration from the decision to Ray Leonard, but becuase he was past his best and had already acheived everything that he wanted to. I also had Hagler winning the fight. There was times that he would let up on the assult and let Leonard off of the hook. I PERSONALLY believe that he carried Ray out of respect.

What did Hagler do to Hearns? He brought the fight to him and made him fight. Jones would not get Hagler's respect by boxing and looking pretty from the outside, he would be roughed up. Jones's weakness against southpaws would also be a major factor as he has looked horrible against every name southpaw that hes fought. Lou Dell valle, Eric Harding, Antonio Tarver ect. Hagler was a thinker, good counter puncher and had excellent ability. I also don't like Jone's chin, as i have stated earlier. Hagler would definitely get there.

Hagler made the fight against Duran harder than it had to be. He brawled with Duran and gave him his chances. When you abandoned your best assets and advantages(which was boxing ability, footwork and size for Hagler) then you make it an even fight. If he would have boxed Duran the way he did Minter, Mugabi, Anterfurmo ect, then i doubt that Duran would have given him anything to worry about.

I agree with you regarding fighters that Roy didnt face. I use to make that arguement. However when I was able to meet Dundee at a Junior Golden glvoes event roughly 10 years 7 years ago, i asked him about Jones and then his not fighint certain fighters, and me forced to realize a couple of things.. First of all, most of the fighter avoided jones. Benn was not willing to fight Roy. He openly said he did not want to fight Roy. Dm wanted the fight to take place over in Germany, and Roy equally as stubborn wanted the fight here,,so they both are the blame. Nunn had just been beaten by Toney, and Roy fought the winner...With your flawed strategy, then Leonard should be faulted for not fighting Cuevas who lost to hearns,,,and/or Palimino who lost to Benetiz.

When did Benn state that he ddin't want to fight Jones? Any sources? Becuase i have heard Benn say that he was willing to come to the U.S and fight anyone, and pacifically said that he wanted Jones after he had beat Gerald MClellann. Watch that interview. Benn is known for coming to the U.S and fighting the best.

Also, Jones goal wasn't to fight the winner of Toney/Nunn. Jones/Toney happened at super middleweight and that was many years after, when Toney struggled with weight problems and had no work ethic. Here are links. Toney vs Nunn happened in May of 1991 at middleweight.
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:5174
Toney vs Jones happened at super middleweight in december of 1994. http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:8934 Jones was cleary avoiding him becuase Nunn was still trying to get the fight at super middleweight when he was pretty much washed up. They were both fighting at super middleweight at the same time.

Toney also had to be hooked up to Ivs before the fight and hospitalized for killing himself to make that weight. Me and many observers believe that an in shape Toney would have beaten Jones. He had the correct game plan. He was bringing educated pressure when he could fight without gassing out. The in shape Toney that fought Barkely had excellent stamina..

Dundee said and I believe him that Roy's awkwardness, speed and power at middleweight virtually left him unbeateable, (Duran told Vinny Pazienza the same thing before they fought). Yes he made a lot of mistakes, and the theory is his jaw was weak, the problem is his instincts (which you can not discredit) allowed him to make these mistakes and not get hit.

He wouldn't have been unbeatable against the upper echlon/elite fighters. Lets face it, he didn't take big risks and was protected against big punchers. Eubank wanted him, Darius ect. He turned all of the fight down and he definitely didn't want any pat of Calzaghe, i would have favored Jones comfortably over Calzaghe but he didn't take the fight. There were so many name fighters that Jones could have fought in the time that he was fighting no bodies on HBO.

At the time Dundee and leonard was estranged....(funny Ray was there at the fights too, I wanted to meet him but I could not..I was with Jimmy matz who had sparred with him and Jimmy introduced me to Angelo)..Dundee stated and I will try my best to quote...Jones would have a heyday fighting Napoles and leonard because of his awkwardness and speed mixed with power..I read somewhere where leoanrd said that the big four was blessed that Roy was not around when they fought because of his awkwardness mixed in with other things...

Yes, i would have favored Jones over Ray Leonard.

Roy was the real deal, Yes we can say who he didnt face..but none of these would be favord vs him....You can say this about anyone,,Leonard didnt face cuevax, palimino...etc..Duran didnt face Pryor, Sanchez, etc... Hagler didnt face quawi ( he never challenged himself and moved up). How about looking at who he did face and he faced more world title holders at the 3 divisions than other greats such as hagler, leonard, hearns. He also easily beat Toney and Hopkins... Finally you leave out he moved up and was beating very good fighter...Leonard moved up and beat one great figher,,,actually lost to a fighter that moved up to him...Duran lost at his orginal weight..hearns lost at welter weight..hagler lost several fights at middleweight...

I think you need to revist Jones....

I have most( not all) of Jones fight on DVD, even when he won the silver medal in the 1988 Olymics in south Korea. He is one of, probably the most talented fighter that i have ever layed my eyes on, but he didn't get the fights that he needed to in order to prove to me that he would stand a chance against the all time greats. As i stated earlier, he will never be known for his opposition, but for his skill and the championships that he won. He beat some good fighters in the process, but lets be serious, they were not at their best. (Toney and Hopkins).

[wpink1]

Good points....but flawed as most reviews of Jones are and not on level playing field, simplky because Jones was so dammm dominant and good.

First off you bring up hearns and how Leonard had to bring the fight to him, yes he did have to bring the fight too him. However each time ...EACH TIME leonard landed a crunching blow, Hearns was hurt, in the 1st fight and the 2nd fight. Leonard by no means hits as hard as Roy. Also, Jones is faster,,,noticeably faster at Middleweight than Leonard was at Welterweight.

Here is what your not looking at. Roy Jones counters are light years faster and more powerful than Leonard's and his body punching which would expose Hearns body as leonards did in round 6. Roy was tougher to hit than Leonard, and his counters were so sharp, fast, awkward and powerful that fighters bigger and stronger than hearns simply stopped punching after tasting the counters Roy had.

Hearns at middlweight vs Jones would be a total mismatch. Total. Jones would laugh and totally overwhelm Hearns with speed and power at Middle or higher. Jones is Leoanrd in speed and power and size, plus some. Where Leonard has shown to be mentally tougher than Jones is when he is in a give and take war, that would not be the case with Hearns as he simply would not be able to deal with Jones.

Agreed, although Hagler being past his prime and lossing his speed, reflexes and mobility may have something to do with it. He retired after the Leonard fight for a reason. Not just frustration from the decision to Ray Leonard, but becuase he was past his best and had already acheived everything that he wanted to. I also had Hagler winning the fight. There was times that he would let up on the assult and let Leonard off of the hook. I PERSONALLY believe that he carried Ray out of respect.

Two things here. Where do you get Hagler was past his peak. Another fallacy put out there by Hagler fans all along that has no legs. He was a well rested 32. He Had not lost a fight in 10 years. He was just coming off his best 3 wins, Hearns, roldan, Mugabi. All by Ko's. So simply to imply that because he fought Ray and lost that he was past his prime is flawed.

Some posters try to insinuate that Leonard said he saw slippage in Hagler at that is why he chose to fight. False. What Leonard said is that he saw Mugabi was outboxing Hagler, and Mugabi is not as good as a boxer as he was. He also saw how Duran forced Hagler to lead, and thus this completely minimized Haglers effectiveness. Same thing Duran told Leonard in their tunes up...http://www.hbo.com/boxing/features/h...r_leonard.html ...... That hagler had not lost anything, simply force hagler to lead and when he steps to punch (as he does) then you disrupt his rhythim by jabbing, holding, or moving. Leonard MADE Hagler appear a lot slower but simply forcing Hagler to lunge as leonard used mobility and thus hagler usual shorter in arc and duraction counters, where now longer in arc and duration round about punches trying to catch and elusive Leonard. This makes a fighter appear slower, wild, offbalance, and amateurish. Which in many rounds is exactly what Hagler was.

Now Hagler could have forced leonard to fight a inside fight, as I dont believe that leonard had the legs or stamina to keep Hagler off of him for the entire fight, and that is what lost the fight for hagler along with losing (notice I did not say give away) the 1st 4 rounds. I did not say give away because I believe at any point in Hagler' career had he faced a 82 version of Leonard he gets beaten...EASILY.... Unless hagler catches leonard and stops him, a version of leonard had never even been knocked down before.

What did Hagler do to Hearns? He brought the fight to him and made him fight. Jones would not get Hagler's respect by boxing and looking pretty from the outside, he would be roughed up. Jones's weakness against southpaws would also be a major factor as he has looked horrible against every name southpaw that hes fought. Lou Dell valle, Eric Harding, Antonio Tarver ect. Hagler was a thinker, good counter puncher and had excellent ability. I also don't like Jone's chin, as i have stated earlier. Hagler would definitely get there.

Hagler made the fight against Duran harder than it had to be. He brawled with Duran and gave him his chances. When you abandoned your best assets and advantages(which was boxing ability, footwork and size for Hagler) then you make it an even fight. If he would have boxed Duran the way he did Minter, Mugabi, Anterfurmo ect, then i doubt that Duran would have given him anything to worry about.

You have a huge flaw in thinking when you suggest that everything that happens inside a ring is because HAGLER chose to allow it. False. Duran is a much better pound per pound fighter than Hagler ever was or will be. Hagler has to set to punch and steps forward with his right foot. This is a huge weakness that allows a fighter who can respond to this a tremendous advantage in negating what Hagler is about to do. Same thing when Trinidad dips to hi left before throwing his left hook, Hopkinds picked up on that, and totally took his left hook away. Duran fought a smart fight and forced hagler to lead and this took away a lot of hagler tremendous punching power and counterpunching greatness.

Many forget hagler was not the type of fighter that came out and bullrushed his opposition. You mention that he did this to Hearns but Jones would not be so lucky. That is very wishfull thinking. Heanrs never tried to box Hagler. Not once. Heans met fire with fire. Jones is a different beast all together. He has more speed than anyone Hagler has ever faced, and better foot movement, and ..I repeat and better defense. Hagler vs Jones, would be a complete whitewash for Jones. He struggle boxing vs Antefermo the first time, then duran, and lost to Leonard boxing. Roy could beat at middleweight all three of these fighters in the same night. I love Ray ,,,I am not a Roy Jones fan, but the guy was that good.

Finally, I agree that roy could have fought all these fighters you mention, but fail to mention that he faced more world champions past present, than leonard, Hagler, and Hearns faced. He beat better fighters thatn hagler and leoanrd beat at their peak weights, wih Toney and Hopkins at middleweight.

My favorite Leonard lost to a lightweight (duran) who is one the best fighters ever, but nonetheless a lightweight that moved up and beat him. Then struggled at Welter vs Hearns. He beat Benitez, then barely outpointed hagler (albiet he was retired for 5 years with one fight). The rest of his career Kalule, etc...is good but not legendary

Duran had a horribly easy Lightweight resume wiht 90% of his fights. If you look at his resume he fought fighters after he was champion that had losing records. Now he did beat 4 -5 very good fightrers and a bunch of decent fighters along the way. Duran also moved up and beat loenard, Davey moore and Barkly, but he also took a lot of whippings too. Duran is generally regarded in the top 10-15 fighters ever.

Hearns....He beat Cuevas and 32-0 with 30 kos going into the leonard fight then got stopped. He also was very good at jr middle and destroyed Duran at 154. He moved up to Hagler and was stopped, then lost to barkly twice but won at the 168 and 175 pound limit too.

Hagler was dominant at Middlweight. However he has losess and draws. He did stop all challengers of his belt except for Duran and leonard. For 10 years did not lose. Hagler never moved up to face the bigger fighters as each of the others did. His biggest names were vs welters that moved up to face him.

I bring all that up so that when you discuss Roy..you need to level the playing field. Roy at his natural weight is undefeated, unlike any of these other fighters. He beat two top great fighters at their peak (or young), and he has beaten at least 17 past or present world champions. Roy unlike Leonard or Duran or Hearns (will not mention Hagler) moved up in weight to 168 and175 and campagined successfully for years with out a lose (except for the dq) and beat very good opposition. He did not lose til 35 years of age. Leonarsd lost at 27, duran lost early, Hagler had losses, and hearns lost early on too.

You say Roy avoided fighters.....Hmmmm it was a two way street. I will agree Roy did not go out of his way to fight many fighters. However, Roy beat the conquereors of many of these fighters you say he ducked. Hmmmm just like leoanrd did in not fighting Cuevas, Palimino etc.. Hearns was at 154 and 160 when McCallum Nunn Toney etc where reigning, Jackson etc He never faced them. Hagler never moved up to face the bigger fighters as everyone else has. Duran moved right up past Pryor..hmmmm

So my point is you try to single out Roy, but Roy did fight the champions and beat them. Outside of DM there was no media demand for anyone of these fighters (whom Roy would have been heavily favored to beat) and roy to fight. Most of these fighter you mention were at 168 where Roy campagined at briefly and then moved on up to 175 and beat the best there. Hmmm sounds like what Duran did, sounds like what Leonard did, sounds like what Hearns did. What is the difference.

Roy imo and Dundee's and leonard himself said,,,,,Roy was sooo fast, athletic and awkward that the big four would have issues ...MAJOR ISSUES facing him. In fact IMO it would not have been the big four if they fought when Roy was fighing..Leonard and Hearns would have stayed at welter..and It would be Duran leonard and hearns dualing there, maybe hearns would have went up. However Leonard would not have for sure, as he would not want to face Jones at middlweight. Hagler would have been a speed bump on jones path, as Jones would beat the daylights out of Hagler.

[mcentepede]

Actually, being a big fan of Hagler, I researched on him. He was actually 35 or 36 when he fought Leonard, by this time he was a seasoned veteran of nearly 70 fights (53 ko's). His real age was given on some website I saw. So, yeah, he was nearing his end of peakness, but still looked great and forced Leonard to dance. He also speaks Italian and was in the smash blockbuster hits "Indio" and the classic sequel "Indio 2". And was never knocked down, as his push/slip vs. Roldan was over-ruled when he was inducted in the Hall of fame.

[Jaffay]

.HARRY GREB the greatest, see my other thread on him

2.MICKEY WALKER WW and MW champ,who almost won the HW and LHW belt too.

3.BOB FITZSIMMONS middleweight,lightheavy andd heavyweight world champion

4.RAY ROBINSON WW and MW champ,has to be in anyones top 5

5.HENRY ARMSTRONG the first man to hold 3 or more titles simultaneously

6.ROBERTO DURAN one of my favourite fighters,raw instinct and the best lightweight ever

7.SAM LANGFORD deserves more recognition,fought from lightweight to heavyweight

8.JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ 6 world titles in three weights

9.ROCKY MARCIANO i hesitate to put a heavyweight in the list but if it had to be any then its marciano, simply for the fact he was a small heavyweight with one of the hardest punchers ever

10.OSCAR DELAHOYA i had to include one modern day fighter to balance it up,


1 How many times have you seen Harry Greb fight?So where are you getting he was great from?Some old idiotic so called boxing expert?
2 Micky Walker huh?Just read number 1
3 When Roberto Duran stepped up he usually lost.Did you see how Tommy Hearns destroyed him?So why isn't Tommy Hearns on your list?
4 How many black guys did Sugar Ray Robinson fight in his career?Not many right?He had a padded record fighting mostly mob controlled italian fighters.Bring Robinson back to life and let him face guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn, Roy Jones Jr,Tommy Hearns,Marvin Halger and the likes and then if he can still win then he would deserve to be up here.
5.Henry Armstrong....how many times did you see him fight?Enough said.
6.Bob Fitzsimmons....again how many fights of his got video taped?.
7 Sam Langford....look i have to type the same thing over again.Not many of this fightes were taped so you dont know how good he was you are just going on what you heard.
8.Julio Cesar Chavez...A career fighting mostly other mexicans.To be blunt...we all know that most of the best fighters for some odd reason are either black or white.
9 Rocky Marciano....he punches hard because who says so?You?Because it took him 8 rounds to knock out Archie Moore a man who was a natural middleweight and was knocked out by naturla middlweights.Rocky Marciano only had the power to knock out bums.A no talent slow unskilled guy like Marciano shouldn't even be on the top million boxers of all time.
10.Oscar De La Hoya.A guy who loses to every good white or black fighter he gets in the ring with.2 times to Shane Mosely,1 time to Pernell Whitaker,Ike Quartey,Bernard Hopkins,Mayweather,and Felix Sturm.What exactly is he good at?

No fighter that any of us seen have seen should be ranked in any pound for pound catagory.Tommy Hearns had great power but lacked the chin.Halger was pretty slow for a middleweight.Sugar Ray Leonard's chin was shakey some times.Ali had no real power and was a pretty poor boxer which is the reason he is the way he is today.
But if I had to choose some fighters who in their prime who would be tough to beat because of their skills.I would choose these.
Julian Jackson if he had better trainer.
George Foreman if he didn't have such a big ego.
Tommy Hearns if he learned when to slug and when to box.
Pernell Whitaker period.
Hmmm.basically that is all i can think of.

you are boxing idiot.

[StarshipTrooper]

Okay. Before I post this let me say that I do have bias here: I have a bias against putting Heavyweights on p4p lists.

Top 20 p4p:

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Roberto Duran
05. Henry Armstrong
06. Alexis Arguello
07. Benny Leonard
08. Ray Leonard
09. Pernell Whitaker
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Joe Gans
12. Roy Jones
13. Pascual Perez
14. Eder Jofre
15. Miguel Canto
16. Carlos Zarate
17. Charley Burley
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Jimmy Wilde
20. Willie Pepp

Poet