My Top 10 All Time P4p.

[1g5a22]

.HARRY GREB the greatest, see my other thread on him

2.MICKEY WALKER WW and MW champ,who almost won the HW and LHW belt too.

3.BOB FITZSIMMONS middleweight,lightheavy andd heavyweight world champion

4.RAY ROBINSON WW and MW champ,has to be in anyones top 5

5.HENRY ARMSTRONG the first man to hold 3 or more titles simultaneously

6.ROBERTO DURAN one of my favourite fighters,raw instinct and the best lightweight ever

7.SAM LANGFORD deserves more recognition,fought from lightweight to heavyweight

8.JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ 6 world titles in three weights

9.ROCKY MARCIANO i hesitate to put a heavyweight in the list but if it had to be any then its marciano, simply for the fact he was a small heavyweight with one of the hardest punchers ever

10.OSCAR DELAHOYA i had to include one modern day fighter to balance it up,


1 How many times have you seen Harry Greb fight?So where are you getting he was great from?Some old idiotic so called boxing expert?
2 Micky Walker huh?Just read number 1
3 When Roberto Duran stepped up he usually lost.Did you see how Tommy Hearns destroyed him?So why isn't Tommy Hearns on your list?
4 How many black guys did Sugar Ray Robinson fight in his career?Not many right?He had a padded record fighting mostly mob controlled italian fighters.Bring Robinson back to life and let him face guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn, Roy Jones Jr,Tommy Hearns,Marvin Halger and the likes and then if he can still win then he would deserve to be up here.
5.Henry Armstrong....how many times did you see him fight?Enough said.
6.Bob Fitzsimmons....again how many fights of his got video taped?.
7 Sam Langford....look i have to type the same thing over again.Not many of this fightes were taped so you dont know how good he was you are just going on what you heard.
8.Julio Cesar Chavez...A career fighting mostly other mexicans.To be blunt...we all know that most of the best fighters for some odd reason are either black or white.
9 Rocky Marciano....he punches hard because who says so?You?Because it took him 8 rounds to knock out Archie Moore a man who was a natural middleweight and was knocked out by naturla middlweights.Rocky Marciano only had the power to knock out bums.A no talent slow unskilled guy like Marciano shouldn't even be on the top million boxers of all time.
10.Oscar De La Hoya.A guy who loses to every good white or black fighter he gets in the ring with.2 times to Shane Mosely,1 time to Pernell Whitaker,Ike Quartey,Bernard Hopkins,Mayweather,and Felix Sturm.What exactly is he good at?

No fighter that any of us seen have seen should be ranked in any pound for pound catagory.Tommy Hearns had great power but lacked the chin.Halger was pretty slow for a middleweight.Sugar Ray Leonard's chin was shakey some times.Ali had no real power and was a pretty poor boxer which is the reason he is the way he is today.
But if I had to choose some fighters who in their prime who would be tough to beat because of their skills.I would choose these.
Julian Jackson if he had better trainer.
George Foreman if he didn't have such a big ego.
Tommy Hearns if he learned when to slug and when to box.
Pernell Whitaker period.
Hmmm.basically that is all i can think of.

jesus get a grip man,u dont have to agree with me,did u wake up with a headache or what!!

[1g5a22]

people seriously need to rethink putting harry Greb so high on their p4p lists. The video of him sparring is a joke, he looks like an amateur literally.

if u see any fighters from back then sparring it looks rough by todays standards,and come on man it obviously worked for him,nearly 400 fights and never knocked out,5ft8 165lbs fought welterweights to heavyweights,fought 37 times in 1 year,fought the most number of champs and ex champs any one ever has,fought all the greats of the time white and black,tunney,walker,flowers,joe gans etc

greats like dempey,tunney etc and historians have nothing but praise for him,iv researched him for years and the more i do the more im in awe of his achievements,and he was cut down in his prime,no ones record comes close to grebs,even robinsons!!

and he was blind in one eye,with the sight deteriorating in his other,can u imagine that, and i seriously need to rethink do i??

[slicksouthpaw16]

what you said about Pacquiao is BS. Pacquiao started at 106 lbs. Aside from Morales, Both Barrera and Marquez were fighting at their NEAR best (marquez in thier last bout looked his best)
Even if you think the Mexican trio were all past their Prime you can't Ignore the fact that Pacquiao has moved up in weight many, MANY times and still been dominant.

My point is, what has Pacquaio done to be considered a 10 great? You say he started his career at strawweight, when Sam Langford is missing from your list and he started his career at lightweight and beat some of the greatest fighters in that era clear up to heavyweight. Plus he beat the better line of fighters than Pacquaio as well and they were actually in their prime. Pacquaio is not even greater than Trinidad or De La Hoya, let alone anyone in the top 10.

Roy Jones beat a prime Hopkins, that's all he really needs to be considered great.

Hopkins was not in his prime(neither was jones). He was a green contender that had not fought anyone with credentials up to that point. Hopkins was in his peak a the time he fought John David Jackson, Glen Johnson and it ended around the time he beat Trinidad.

As for mayweather, even if he did beat Cotto, Mosely (or any other welterweight for that matter) People would still demand more.

Who would demand more? I sure as hell wouldn't. Unifying the titles and beating all of the key names in his division would be a hell of an accomplishment and THEN, you could make a case for him being in the top 10.
As for now, he is picking and choosing his opponents and that will get him nowhere but critisized.

[Ryn0]

My list consists of

1.
Ray Robinson
Obvious Reasons really, undefeated at Welter and one of if not the longer undefeated run, Won the MW title 5 times, never KO'd

2.
Jimmy Wilde
First flyweight champion, lost only 3 times, was fighting people that outweighes him by 14-20 pounds regularly, amazing power. 133 fights 99 KO's 3 losses. Finally lost to Pancho Villa.

3.
Muhammad Ali
Was in one of the most if not the most competitive heavyweight eras ever. Beat ATG heavy's frazier, foreman, Norton etc. Beat good contenders like Chavers, Cooper and Beat the young spinks to recapture the title 3 times.

4.
Henry Armstrong
held 3 titles at the same time, only man to do so, deserves to be in everyone's list

5.
Sandy Sadler
often neglected, KO'd defensive master pep, beat alot of good fighters and was powerful effective fighter.

6.
Willie Pep
Defensive Master, knew all the tricks in the book, Fought over 200 fights and the latter half was after a deadly crash.

7.
Marvin Hagler
One of the most dominant Middleweights of all time, Hard hitting, Amazing chin, Stellar compitition, Last loss was hotly contested (i thought he won), great fighter, could fight inside or at range. One of my favourite fighters.

8.
Roy Jones Jr.
First man in 100 years to win titles at middleweight and Heavyweight, fast, Unique style, won titles from MW to Heavyweight, Dominant. Losses came when reflexes left him.

9.
Joe Louis
Dominant Heavyweight, Most defenses of title, Powerful, etc. not much can be said, excellent fighter.

10.
Julio Cesar Chavez
proberbly doesn't belong with these guys but he's a personal favourite.

TBH there isn't much between these guys, they could be placed anywhere in the top 10 and i would be fine with it.

[marciano1952]

people seriously need to rethink putting harry Greb so high on their p4p lists. The video of him sparring is a joke, he looks like an amateur literally.

Just like you need to seriously rethink every post you have made regarding the historical part of boxing


Dude Seriously it was sparring Greg Page embarresed Tyson while sparring so it loses all credit at that

[Ryn0]

Just like you need to seriously rethink every post you have made regarding the historical part of boxing


Dude Seriously it was sparring Greg Page embarresed Tyson while sparring so it loses all credit at that

personally I'm not a massive Fan of Greb. He's was a great fighter no doubt and he's floating around in my top 20 but i can't really place him because there is no footage of him fighting at all.

[wpink1]

Slicksouthpaw. I sort of understand what your saying, but you can not discredit a fighter (jones ) for beating a undefeated top ranked opponent ( Hopkins) just because he was not that experienced yet....neither was jones at the time. It was a pretty easy day in the park for Jones, a boring day at that. Jones if I recall correctly was beating hopkins one handed as he had a serious hand injury at the time, but did not want to cancel the fight.

Roy honestly is not given the credit he deserves. He dominated the middleweights including Hopkins and Toney. He beat over 17 world champions, he moved up and dominated not only middleweights, but super middles and light heavy's., then went on to win the heavyweight championship of the world.

Never lost til he was old and lost his reflexes due to age and issues with losing weight from Heavywight down to light heavy.

If Roy had had a hagler or Hearns, on top of Toney and Hopkins, to fight, then he would have been a top 5 all timer.

[marciano1952]

personally I'm not a massive Fan of Greb. He's was a great fighter no doubt and he's floating around in my top 20 but i can't really place him because there is no footage of him fighting at all.

I never mentioned anything about him and PAP list just mention that you cant realy go by sparring for an accuret tool to judge a fighter but when you have guys like Dempsey and Tunney say your the best they ever saw you know that fighter has to be great

[slicksouthpaw16]

Slicksouthpaw. I sort of understand what your saying, but you can not discredit a fighter (jones ) for beating a undefeated top ranked opponent ( Hopkins) just because he was not that experienced yet....neither was jones at the time. It was a pretty easy day in the park for Jones, a boring day at that. Jones if I recall correctly was beating hopkins one handed as he had a serious hand injury at the time, but did not want to cancel the fight.

Roy honestly is not given the credit he deserves. He dominated the middleweights including Hopkins and Toney. He beat over 17 world champions, he moved up and dominated not only middleweights, but super middles and light heavy's., then went on to win the heavyweight championship of the world.

Never lost til he was old and lost his reflexes due to age and issues with losing weight from Heavywight down to light heavy.

Jones is great, but definitely not in the top 10. He avoided all of the key name fighters in the divisions in which he won the paper belts in. He is not known for fighting his mandatories and only fought fighters that he know that he could beat.

Also, he didn't dominate the middleweights or the super middleweights. Benn was around and willing to come over the U.S to fight Jones, Eubank was around, Calzaghe wanted to fight him, Trinidad at middleweight, Michael Nunn, Hopkins in the rematch, Dariusz and a lot of others. He avoided all of the big punchers as well. His chin was exposed against Lou Dell Valle and he was been protected ever since then. Lets put it like this, what fighters did Jones take on that was at their 100% best and a real threat to his crown? The closest was Virgil Hill and that speaks for itself. Especially since Hill is not great and had already been beaten by Thomas Hearns and Dariusz Michalczewski by that point. Jones fought Hill in his very next fight after that lost. Thats my point. Everyone that is on my list have beaten many legends that were in their prime and fought the best opposition out there. Jones was on a long stretch period where he fought nothing but no names on HBO and was thought of as being protected. When he finally bit the bullet and fought mandatories like Eric Harding ect, they gave him life and death. Jones will never be known for his opposition, but for his accomplishments like being a 4 division world champion. I definitely respect that and he is a great fighter, but we couldn't see how he would react to being in a hard fight and having to dig down deep to get a win because he avoided the superstars in the divisions.

If Roy had had a hagler or Hearns, on top of Toney and Hopkins, to fight, then he would have been a top 5 all timer.

Interesting becuase i chose both of them over Jones.

[MWMerlino]

The thread is called "MY TOP 10 ALL TIME P4P"

So why is everyone getting butt hurt over other peoples lists? Some people want to put only p4p fighters that they've actually seen box on their list, or fighters that are relevant to boxing today and not 50+ years ago. I miss and adore the old school of boxing just as much as the next man but do we really need to argue about putting Greb's blind ass in every P4P list just because we read about all of his exploits?

Get a grip. These lists are PERSONAL not DEBATABLE.